Evidence of meeting #44 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was victoria.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
Ultimately, based on what you have said, it's mainly Public Works that is accountable for having agreed to sign this lease, even after learning that another building had been leased—in that case, Place Bonaventure.
As an Individual
Perhaps I could just give you a very simple summary of responsibilities in this area. Whenever a move, a lease negotiation or anything of that nature is involved, the client department is responsible for identifying all of its requirements and forwarding that information to the Department of Public Works, which is responsible for the tendering process, negotiating with owners, and so.
Now, obviously, the two departments talk to each other. Once the tendering process is completed, if Public Works were to propose office space that was completely inadequate, for example, the client department would try to have it change that decision. Ultimately, it is the Department of Public Works and Government Services that makes the business decision. Of course, they ask our opinion. In this particular case, following discussions with representatives of Place Victoria, at the very end of the process I agreed, administratively speaking, that the Agency would stay in the same place. The Minister also agreed to that.
Bloc
Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
In relation to the first question I asked, I would like you to tell us whether Public Works staff consulted you on all of this. Initially they had succeeded in negotiating a lease price of $308 a square meter including renovations, but by the very end, they were recommending to the Minister that he sign an agreement providing for a lease cost of $308 a square meter, not including renovations. Were you consulted on this?
It looks as though you completely abandoned a request that your office space be refitted and improved at no cost. How is it that you were not consulted about such an important matter?
As an Individual
Well, I mentioned that there was one improvement made with respect to handicapped access. That was done. If there were other consultations between Public Works staff and staff at my own Agency, I can only say that I was not directly involved in them.
I had a file manager. Mr. Drouin…
As an Individual
My file manager was Mr. Pierre Bordeleau. He was in charge of Administrative and Financial Services at the Agency. He may have heard about this, but I was not directly consulted.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Merci beaucoup, monsieur Laforest.
Monsieur Poilievre is next, for six minutes.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
There was a competitive process to ascertain the new location of your agency, and Place Victoria finished fourth. That process was initiated by your agency's desire to have more space. All the bureaucracy and officials within the federal public service indicated that Place Bonaventure would be the best location, given the outcome of that competitive process. I can't find any public service correspondence that says otherwise, so I'm asking who overturned the will of the public servants and the competitive process in order to stay in the more expensive Place Victoria facility.
Who was it? Who made the decision?
As an Individual
As part of previous proceedings, according to what I read, you were made aware of a letter sent by my Secretary of State, Mr. Claude Drouin, to Mr. Boudria who was the Minister of Public Works and Government Services at the time. On March 28, 2002, I confirmed to Mr. Norman Couture, who was the Regional Director of Public Works and Government Services in Montreal, that I had agreed to move to Place Bonaventure.
As an Individual
Yes.
On April 15 of that same year—in other words, a few weeks later—Mr. Claude Drouin wrote a letter, which you have as part of your documentation, asking the Minister of Public Works and Government Services whether it would be possible to stay at Place Victoria.
As an Individual
Subsequently, Public Works and Government Services staff decided to begin discussions with the managers of Place Victoria, the Stock Exchange Tower, which yielded the result that you are all aware of.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
What you have just confirmed is that you wanted to move. You indicated that you would have liked to have more space; that there was an intervention by Monsieur Drouin to the public works minister, and that it was the Minister of Public Works who made the decision.
Somebody made the decision, right?
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
If you're going to answer the question, is that right or is it wrong?
As an Individual
Indeed, following Mr. Drouin's letter, the Department of Public Works decided to begin discussions with people at Place Victoria. That is absolutely true. I should also say that Mr. Drouin's letter surprised me, but my explanation would be that Mr. Drouin had only held his position for a few weeks when these events occurred.
I informed him that it was possible the Agency would move. I told him exactly what I mentioned at the beginning of this meeting, which was that it would be difficult to manage, given that employees had been working there for a very long time.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Okay, but who actually decided? I guess you're giving me.... You're repeating yourself from earlier. Who decided? When there's a decision, there must be a decider. Who was the decider? Who decided?
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
To stay at Place Victoria after it finished fourth in the competitive bid. Who decided?
Conservative