Public Accounts Committee on March 28th, 2007

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Staff Sergeant Frizzell, how many years have you been with the RCMP?

[S/Sgt Mike Frizzell]

Seventeen years.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

The following might be a little bit awkward. However, notwithstanding the awkwardness, I understand that you have an exemplary record. Prior to this investigation, were there any negative comments on your service file that you're aware of?

[S/Sgt Mike Frizzell]

None.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Retired Staff Sergeant Ron Lewis, I have here a guiding document of the RCMP, known as the “Mission, Vision and Values” statement, signed by former Commissioner Zaccardelli. Who wrote this document?

[Ron Lewis]

I was at a meeting in Prince Edward Island in June 1996. At that meeting were the entire senior executive of the RCMP and all the staff relations representatives. We meet on a quarterly basis. The commissioner of the day, Mr. Murray, basically commissioned a study by the grassroots members of the RCMP to see how we should conduct our business: How do we behave? What are our guiding principles? He left it up to the membership.

That was the first time I met Staff Sergeant Mike Frizzell. At that time he was a constable. He made the presentation to this committee. Those items were accepted by the commissioner and the senior executives of the day, and they were made basically our guiding principles to this day, with not one word changed.

That's where I first met Mike Frizzell. Actually, based on my dealings with him over the years, he lives by these. In fact, I had this in my pocket when I first came in, and our commissioner at the time, Zaccardelli, carried it for years. Unfortunately, he didn't live up to them. Staff Sergeant Frizzell has, and still does to this day.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Lewis.

Staff Sergeant Frizzell, on June 20, 2006, two senior officers arrived at your office and removed you from the investigation. Why do you believe you were removed?

[S/Sgt Mike Frizzell]

Just to clear up something that's been in the papers, I was not escorted out of the building. Two superintendents served me the order that has been referred to here, that you have a copy of.

Despite Mr. Gork's assertions, right in the last couple of weeks of the investigation, that's when we found out about this additional half-million dollars coming out of the insurance plans, about the falsification of the minutes of the meeting.

Perhaps Mr. Gork's not aware of it--he was in Lyon at the time--but most certainly Mr. Roy should have been. These were directly out of the investigation. They needed to be followed up on.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Were the two senior officers part of the investigative team? And under whose authority were they acting?

[S/Sgt Mike Frizzell]

They weren't part of the investigative team, no, but they were operating under Mr. Gork's authority.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Assistant Commissioner Gork, you said you're here today because the commissioner requested, but I'd like to point out that this is incorrect. You're here because the parliamentary committee has requested you to be here. In fact a request from the committee compels you to be here.

Assistant Commissioner Gork, the written order you signed for Staff Sergeant Frizzell's removal off the investigation said you were out of the country. Where were you?

[A/Commr David Gork]

Lyon, France.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

A pretty good assignment, if you can get it.

[A/Commr David Gork]

It's a difficult job.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

So it wasn't an easy assignment, it was a difficult one. This challenging assignment in France--you were there, and then, with the five-hour time zone difference, in the evenings you were still providing oversight for the pension fund investigation?

[A/Commr David Gork]

No, that's not correct. I never provided oversight for the investigation. What I provided was liaison and resources for the senior investigator, for Inspector Paul Roy. I did not provide oversight for the investigation.

To answer your other question, yes, I did. I had my BlackBerry on 7/24. Even being in Canada, I'm responding to France on a regular basis.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you.

I'd like to quote Deputy Commissioner Barb George's response to this committee when she was repeatedly asked who had Staff Sergeant Frizzell removed from the criminal investigation. She stated, and I quote, “I can speculate, if you wish...I wasn't involved....”

Chair, I'd like to pass on to you, for tabling in the future, several e-mails.

The first e-mail, from Chief Superintendent Doug Lang, reads in part:

...I have an electronic copy of the written order we served on Frizzell at the request of A/Commr Gork and D/Commr George...

I'll also be submitting to you, Chair, an e-mail from Assistant Commissioner Bruce Rogerson, which states:

...Barb George called [Assistant Commissioner] Darrell LaFosse, then me and, then, Dave Gork, surrounding Mike Frizzell's harassing behaviour and he needed to be dealt with swiftly.

Chair, I'm very concerned that Deputy Commissioner Barb George has perjured herself before this committee and will need to appear to clarify this situation.

But I'd like to ask Chief Superintendent Macaulay a question.

Chief Superintendent, what did Deputy Commissioner Barb George say to you about your being seconded to the Department of National Defence?

[C/Supt Fraser Macaulay]

On September 19, 2003, at 5 o'clock, I met with Barb George, and she confirmed that I was seconded to DND.

Part of my discussion with Ms. George was around how the DGs...and the support that I wasn't getting from the rest of my colleagues around my director general table. Barb made it very clear to me at that time that I was alone. She advised me that I was on an island by myself and that nobody was going to tell the truth.

We had a lengthy conversation on the issues again, and she explained to me how naive I had to be to think that anyone was going to stand beside me in this type of situation and tell the truth.

By the end of the conversation, I realized for the first time that I was alone, and that the rest of the managers were now distancing themselves from me.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Any time left, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

No, you're through.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Thank you very much, Mr. Wrzesnewskyj.

Monsieur Laforest, sept minutes, s'il vous plaît.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Good afternoon, everyone. I'd like to thank all of you for being here.

What you have said leaves a strange impression and conveys a very different vision from the one presented in the Auditor General's report. Nevertheless, there remains a significant discrepancy. I do not mean that the auditor did her job incorrectly, but it is as though the information given to her were incomplete, as though she did not have everything she needed to do the job. Listening to you, it seems that people purposely threw a monkey wrench into the works to ensure that the investigation would not go as far as you would have liked.

A number of you have spoken about the values of the RCMP, and it is very commendable that you should say that. Nevertheless, we are wondering whether this is not a case of corruption. At the very least, it suggests that the investigation should go much further.

Ms. Revine, you were removed from your duties and your position was abolished. Is that right?

[Denise Revine, Public Service Employee, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

That is correct.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

You were the one who blew the whistle about the diversion of funds. Did you mention this to senior management?