Evidence of meeting #46 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was senior.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Ron Lewis  Staff Sergeant (Retired), Royal Canadian Mounted Police, As an Individual
Fraser Macaulay  Chief Superintendent, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Steve Walker  Staff Sergeant, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Mike Frizzell  Staff Sergeant, Strategic and Operational Support, National Child Exploitation Coordination Centre, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
David Gork  Assistant Commissioner, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Denise Revine  Public Service Employee, Royal Canadian Mounted Police

5:05 p.m.

Staff Sergeant, Royal Canadian Mounted Police

S/Sgt Steve Walker

Yes, I did. The joint OPS-RCMP investigation surfaced allegations and reasonable suspicion that there were decisions made to intentionally circumvent the policies and process that were put in place in the checks and balances that the Government of Canada expects of all their agencies.

We look back, as I said before, to a breach of the Financial Administration Act, Treasury Board directives, and all those things.

The cases would be put together, and yes, we did speak to the provincial Crown during this process, but they won't prosecute if they don't feel there's reasonable opportunity for a successful conclusion.

When I say “borderline”, it doesn't make it administrative. There can be criminal activity that's conducted. It's no different from where we know somebody has done something wrong, whether it's in the drug world or whatever. You see it; if you don't have the proof, we can't charge, but that still does make it criminal in nature.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON

Thank you.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy

Thank you very much, Ms. Sgro.

Mr. Poilievre, you have three minutes.

March 28th, 2007 / 5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON

Mr. Lewis, on what date did you contact Ministers Alcock and McLellan?

5:10 p.m.

Staff Sergeant (Retired), Royal Canadian Mounted Police, As an Individual

Ron Lewis

It was on February 16, 2004.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON

And what information did you share with them?

5:10 p.m.

Staff Sergeant (Retired), Royal Canadian Mounted Police, As an Individual

Ron Lewis

Actually, you have the information. I sent it to you.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON

Can you summarize?

5:10 p.m.

Staff Sergeant (Retired), Royal Canadian Mounted Police, As an Individual

Ron Lewis

Well, it's about a 60-page document, but basically the document I sent to your office outlined all the problems with the investigation, which I've imparted to you here today.

Just to make sure it's on the official record, I've taken the same document that I sent to your office and I've tabled it. So it's the whole story, basically—the inaction, the lies, the obstruction, the delays, and the actual allegations, what they were, how much money is involved, the whole story.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON

How did they respond?

5:10 p.m.

Staff Sergeant (Retired), Royal Canadian Mounted Police, As an Individual

Ron Lewis

I asked them to pass it on to the Office of the Auditor General. Then I was in contact with them, and I believe—Mr. Gork can confirm this—the Auditor General required the RCMP to brief the OAG on a bimonthly basis.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON

But the two ministers, though, don't direct the Auditor General. What was their reaction? What action did they take?

5:10 p.m.

Staff Sergeant (Retired), Royal Canadian Mounted Police, As an Individual

Ron Lewis

There was no response from them.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON

There was no response from either of the ministers?

5:10 p.m.

Staff Sergeant (Retired), Royal Canadian Mounted Police, As an Individual

Ron Lewis

No. And then later I wrote to Mrs. Bloodworth because I was concerned, later on in the investigation, that still things were happening that didn't appear right. I had no response.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON

So the ministers who were responsible for this—for example, the public security minister at the time—

5:10 p.m.

Staff Sergeant (Retired), Royal Canadian Mounted Police, As an Individual

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON

—who was the minister responsible for this particular file—

5:10 p.m.

Staff Sergeant (Retired), Royal Canadian Mounted Police, As an Individual

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON

—did not take any action when you informed her.

5:10 p.m.

Staff Sergeant (Retired), Royal Canadian Mounted Police, As an Individual

Ron Lewis

Well, I don't know. All I can say is I had no contact with—

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON

But she didn't respond to you.

5:10 p.m.

Staff Sergeant (Retired), Royal Canadian Mounted Police, As an Individual

Ron Lewis

No response.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON

There was no response whatsoever?

5:10 p.m.

Staff Sergeant (Retired), Royal Canadian Mounted Police, As an Individual