Okay.
Evidence of meeting #53 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was investigation.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #53 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was investigation.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I have great respect for your rights in this matter.
When asked about your removal from where you were before, we had Deputy Commissioner George say:
Ms. Revine had health issues. I believe that on her doctor's orders she has been precluded from working within the office, and I believe there are issues there. We have accommodated her, and, as I said, she has been working from home.
That would of course lead one to believe that the attempt was there to do you a favour, to accommodate an identified health issue.
Now, just to keep things interesting, of course, we have Rosalie Burton, who stated the last time she was here, when I put a direct question to her on this issue, and I again quote: “She was declared surplus.”
On the one hand, we have a senior officer saying it was to help you out because of a current personal situation. We have another person, responsible for the restructuring, in which the music stopped and you didn't have a seat to sit down on, and your version.
Would you bring us up to date again as to what you believe happened to you and why?
5:10 p.m.
Public Service Employee, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Okay.
On January 5, 2004, I provided a report to Staff Sergeant Lewis. It was a 16-page report that wasn't attached to the letter.
On February 16 I received an e-mail from Assistant Commissioner Gork. He was requesting the names of individuals who had received a copy of the above-noted report. A copy of the draft of the report that I'd prepared had apparently turned up somewhere, and he wanted the names of people who had contributed to the report. I said I wouldn't provide the names unless there was an investigation.
February 27 I was invited to attend a meeting on HR restructuring. At the meeting there were 25 to 30 directors. Rosalie Burton flew in--she was at the time on language training--from Quebec City. She flew in from there just for the day. I was the only one whose name wasn't on the overheads, so that was my first inclination that maybe there was something better for me, but I wasn't sure.
When she returned from language training, April 7, 2004, Rosalie Burton informed me that I no longer had a job in the RCMP. From that day on, she excluded me from all management meetings and asked that I turn over all my responsibilities to Mr. John Hartin, an employee she had seconded into the RCMP from Treasury Board. She asked that I concentrate all my efforts on finding employment.
5:10 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Were you advised that this happened because of the restructuring?
5:10 p.m.
Public Service Employee, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
She told me it was for budget reasons.
Two weeks before that, I had seen an e-mail from Deputy Commissioner George--and I have a copy of the e-mail--saying that we would be hiring people with new thinking skills and analytical skills, so I challenged that. I said, “How can that be?” She said, “It's just the way it is. There's no money.” So I said, “You can't just pick somebody and tell them they no longer have a job; there are processes.” She said, “Well, I'll go down and see personnel.”
So on April 22 she called me to her office and then served me a letter that you should have in your binder—
April 30th, 2007 / 5:10 p.m.
Public Service Employee, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Yes, probably somewhere. The letter basically informed me that I was to go to the Public Service Commission, and that looking for work elsewhere should become a priority.
5:10 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
You mean outside the RCMP, but within the Canadian government?
5:10 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I'm really tight for time, so have you got the essence of what you need to say across, or do you need—
5:10 p.m.
Public Service Employee, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
I think so. The health part kicked in later.
5:10 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
That's the only other question I wanted to ask. When did you first raise the issue of anything to do with your health with any superior in the organization?
5:10 p.m.
Public Service Employee, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
I know you want to make that link. This coincided with the criminal investigation, and because I'd been a key informant, I participated in that a fair amount. I also had to now confront looking for work outside the Public Service Commission after 33 years in the organization. I was hurting. There was a lot going on.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Did you have a lot of questions in your mind as to why this was being done? Were you starting to think—
5:15 p.m.
Public Service Employee, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
There's no question in my mind that it was related to this.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I need the words. Related to what? What do you think happened, and why, in one or two sentences, Denise?
5:15 p.m.
Public Service Employee, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
The first thing that happened was when Fraser was removed, and he told me about it, and he said, “You'd better get out, because Ewanovich is coming after you next.” That was in August of 2003. Burton was a friend of Ewanovich, and basically it just happened.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Okay.
I'm going to give you an opportunity to respond, Ms. Burton, but I did want to ask something.
Chief Superintendent Macaulay, Denise Revine reported to you?
5:15 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Could you just give us your thoughts and what you know of the issue of Ms. Revine no longer being employed with the RCMP?
5:15 p.m.
Chief Superintendent, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
The first time she heard about it was after I had left. As she said, she called me the day she had been in that meeting, and there was no job for her on the wall.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
5:15 p.m.
Chief Superintendent, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Well, in the discussion we had with Mr. Ewanovich, he made it clear to me that they would be looking to push Denise to Treasury Board. That was his quote.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I see.
I don't know if courts allow this, and I'm not a lawyer, far from it, but let me just ask you this. In your opinion, do you believe she was removed for those reasons, or do you believe it was a legitimate...? Is that possible?
