Public Accounts Committee on May 7th, 2007

[Greg McEvoy]

You're dealing with putting a contract in place for work that's already done. There are issues with process and risk. Does CAC know anything about the work that was done? Is this a proper contracting process to pay a consultant who didn't go through any kind of competitive process to do this work? It's not in keeping with proper contracting policy.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

That's what I wanted to hear.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Thank you very much, Mr. Christopherson.

Just before we go to Ms. Sgro, I have one question that I want to follow up on with Mr. Marshall, and it's on the report.

We operate here in a system, or I think we operate in a system, where we have transparency; Parliament knows what's going on. It's my understanding that all internal audits and reports are posted on a website. Would this normally be posted on the Public Works website?

[David Marshall]

No, Mr. Chairman. This was an investigation into potential wrongdoing and problems, so it's not an internal audit in that regard. It has a lot of names of persons involved, and so on, so we would be responsible for taking action to inform central agencies but not for posting it onto the website.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

My point is that this was kind of an offshoot of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police pension and insurance investigation. It was a bit of a path, but if we didn't get there, Parliament would never have known. Is there no obligation for you or your minister to report this to Parliament?

[David Marshall]

Under the current structure of rules, there is not, but we weren't trying to circumvent them. There were questions in the House on this subject, and there were newspaper articles. We were operating within the bounds of finding out what the problem was and taking action, and....

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

You know yourself that questions in the House are very seldom answered.

This is a serious issue. We're dealing in a parliamentary system; Parliament ought to be informed when something like this goes on. In this case, I don't see any trail at all that there was any effort by you or your staff or your minister to inform Parliament.

[David Marshall]

Well, Mr. Chairman, we did inform the Auditor General so that she would be able to judge the extent to which she wanted to report this or dig into it at her discretion. She was informed, and she's an officer of Parliament. We did what we thought we could.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Are there any other skeletons in the closet you want to share with us?

[David Marshall]

That's a big question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Okay.

Go ahead, Ms. Sgro, for seven minutes.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Crupi, would you please run through with me when you were relieved of your responsibilities with the RCMP?

[Dominic Crupi]

I was.... I stepped down from that position and was put on leave in November 2003.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Okay. Why was that?

[Dominic Crupi]

They were starting an audit or an investigation and they asked me to step aside until it was completed. I had also talked to Barb George at the time, saying I didn't feel it would.... There were a lot of rumours going around, and I didn't feel appropriate to even stay in that position.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Was this specifically when KPMG was brought in to do the audit, or was it earlier than that?

[Dominic Crupi]

This was all internal to the RCMP. It was whenever they called their investigation.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

What was the investigation on, specifically, at that time, when you were asked to—

[Dominic Crupi]

There were a whole bunch of allegations made, I'm told. I've never seen the allegations, other than what I've read and heard, so whatever those allegations were, that's what was being investigated.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

You stepped aside in November 2003.

[Dominic Crupi]

Correct.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

What did you do then? Were you sent home with pay, or what was the process?

[Dominic Crupi]

Yes, I was sent home with pay, and then in.... Throughout that process I continued to call the RCMP, asking when I was going to be interviewed. I can't count how many times I called. “When am I going to be interviewed?” “When can I tell my story?” “When can I answer questions?” That took a heck of a long time.

In any case, I had some health issues in November-December of 2004, went on sick leave, and was on sick leave until my retirement date, which was June 16, 2005.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

What did you do after that? You retired on June 16, 2005, and then you ended up working for a security company, one of our.... CSIS?

[Dominic Crupi]

No. No, I started working for Ford Motor Company, working in their car area.