Evidence of meeting #57 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.
A recording is available from Parliament.
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
No, we don't, Mr. Wrzesnewskyj. We followed up with Mr. Crupi, and his explanation is he misunderstood your question. He gave us three names that he used as references in his application, and there were no letters per se. That's his evidence and....
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Are we still pursuing to receive those reference letters, so we may see who they were?
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
He said there were no letters, just references on his application. These were names as references on his application.
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Would the Department of National Defence...? I assume if he's being hired and there's a document, they might perhaps have a copy of that particular document.
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
We can follow up and see if we have that.
Mr. Williams, you have a point of order or a comment?
6:10 p.m.
Conservative
John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
Yes, just on this issue, Mr. Chairman. I've lost track of this, but perhaps Mr. Wrzesnewskyj,can tell me how this deals with chapter 9 of the pension insurance administration of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. I'm at a loss.
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Mr. Williams, if you wanted an explanation from Mr. Wrzesnewskyj on this issue, we've got a lot of issues that come forward on this particular issue that were tangents down roads and--
6:10 p.m.
Conservative
John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
This is a good example for you, Mr. Chairman. Maybe you should find the rationale before you accede to the request.
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Well, Mr. Williams, if you want an example, I'll give you an example. There was the KPMG contract--what does that have--
6:10 p.m.
Conservative
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
But we allowed that, and that was part of the thing.
Mr. Williams, there are a number of tangents in the RCMP investigation in which we've allowed a certain amount of latitude.
6:10 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Point of order, Mr. Chair. I'm not sure why you feel uncomfortable going to the KPMG audit. It's perfectly germane.
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Oh, no, I supported it 100%. What I'm saying, Mr. Poilievre, is that it was not.... Don't accuse me of being uncomfortable, please.
Go ahead.
6:10 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Yes, the KPMG audit is very pertinent, especially considering the fact that contracting is germane to the overall pension insurance issue that came up in the Auditor General's report, which we're supposed to be studying. So I make no apologies for having raised the KPMG audit.
To that end, I'm asking to confirm if Anthony Koziol, Kim Casey, Jeff Molson, Suzanne Beaudin, and Pierre Laplante are included on our future witness list at this time. If not, I'd like to add them.
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
We can add them, and perhaps you can speak with your member on the steering committee too and bring that to his attention. He's never brought that up, so you may want to speak with Mr. Fitzpatrick.
Mr. Christopherson.
6:10 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Chair, I seek a little guidance from you.
Given the discussion that we got talking about with Mr. Spice—which was very important, and we didn't know whether we were going to get him back, but I feel we spent some time there—we really didn't, in my opinion, deal with all the issues that have to do with what the focus of this particular hearing was going to be. And that was what happened inside the secure area and the allegations that documents are missing as a result of an executive assistant to a deputy commissioner appearing somewhere where it's questionable whether or not he ought to have been there, etc., etc. We don't have that particular EA here, and I think that was part of the issue Mr. Wrzesnewskyj raised about who got invited and who didn't. I don't have the name at my fingertips; I apologize. Mr. Estabrooks was away that day, but the staff person who was there when the EA went through--we should hear from that person.
That whole issue is really what this was about, and our serious concern is that the allegations, if true, mean that actions were being taken, even as we meet now, in an attempt to cover up. And if that's not what happened, then we need to dispel those allegations and take that pressure off and not just leave that cloud there.
So I'm in your hands, Chair. I know that time is a priceless commodity, but we really did not get to the essence of what we meant to today, through no fault of the committee. What do we do? Where does that leave us, Chair? I don't want to leave these questions unanswered.
6:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
I think the best thing to do, Mr. Christopherson, is bring that up at the steering committee at the next meeting. We're not going to resolve that today, and we are very close to 6:30.
6:15 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I guess what I was wondering was whether or not I might get some feel from the committee whether they feel the same way. If I'm the only one, then it's not a problem. If there are others who feel this way, then we know how seriously to treat it at the steering committee.
6:15 p.m.
Bloc
Jean-Yves Roy Bloc Haute-Gaspésie—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC
Mr. Chairman, I would like to reassure him. He is not alone in feeling this way.
6:15 p.m.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Chair, obviously I'd like to hear from witnesses who I'd requested to appear at this meeting. They're not here, so I concur with Mr. Christopherson.
6:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Okay.
I'm going to adjourn, but before I do that, Mr. Corrigan, you had a comment.
6:15 p.m.
As an Individual
Mr. Chair, on that particular issue I did ask, after Mr. Estabrooks' testimony, the current officer in charge of ATIP to provide a written summary from the folks who were in the office at that time when Deputy Commissioner Gauvin's executive assistant came out; that was on the 20th. I do have a copy of those summary reports with me in both official languages, if you would like those tabled.
6:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Thank you for tabling. If you could table them now, we'll circulate them to the committee.
Mr. Spice.