Evidence of meeting #57 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Commissioner Paul Gauvin  Deputy Commissioner, Corporate Management and Comptrollership, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Commissioner John Spice  Assistant Commissioner (Retired), Royal Canadian Mounted Police, As an Individual
Keith Estabrooks  As an Individual
Sergeant André Girard  Staff sergeant, Criminal Intelligence & Analysis Section, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Pierre Lavoie  Superintendent (Retired), Royal Canadian Mounted Police, As an Individual
Steven Chaplin  Principal Parliamentary Counsel (Legal), Office of the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel, House of Commons
Ron Lewis  Staff Sergeant (Retired), Royal Canadian Mounted Police, As an Individual
Bernie Corrigan  As an Individual

6:15 p.m.

A/Commr John Spice

May I just have one moment, please?

I'd like to talk to this committee just very briefly about the whole issue of this investigation that took place by the Ottawa city police and the response by the crown attorney.

It was indicated that the phrase “no reasonable prospective conviction”, as I understand it, was the reason that nothing was done. And I hope—and I'm sure that there are lawyers around this table who are far more knowledgeable than I—that does not mean that a criminal offence did not occur, merely that the evidence does not support a charge. So further investigation might well have brought the level of the evidence up to a point where a charge could be laid. And I don't know, I'm speculating, but I would suggest that's something this committee ought to think about.

I want to offer you a definition of police corruption, and this is in the documentation that I provided to you. It's important to hear this. When we looked at the RCMP internal corruption, the project that I was brought back to work on, we developed or through consensus came up with this definition of corruption: “Police corruption is any illegal activity or misconduct involving the use of occupational power for personal, group, or organizational gain.” That's a widely accepted definition, and it was by Sayed and Bruce in 1998. But I think it's important, if you're looking at corruption, that you keep in mind that definition and that you also look at the whole notion of “noble cause corruption”—the end justifying the means—in your deliberations.

I've come a long way for this, and I don't know that I'm coming back, so lastly, Mr. Chair, in my humble opinion, the RCMP requires oversight as it relates to complaints about senior managers, EX levels to the commissioner. There is a need for an ombuds role specific to the RCMP to ensure a level of accountability. And additionally, I believe that the RCMP Act has to be amended to increase the limitation of action on misconduct. If we don't do that.... That's been a problem for many, many years; it's not new. But those two things, whether it's an ombudsperson or some form of oversight committee, it has to follow through.

Thank you very much, and I apologize for taking too much time.

6:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy

No apology is needed at all. Thank you very much for your excellent comments, sir.

I want to take this opportunity on behalf of the committee to thank all the witnesses for your attendance today. It was a little longer than we had originally expected, but we certainly want to thank you.

We're back Wednesday at 3:30, colleagues.

The meeting is adjourned.