Public Accounts Committee on June 5th, 2008

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

I'm fairly sure that the system has been revamped. So rather than setting our sight at a meeting...because what are we going to study? We have no documentation. I would ask that Treasury Board submit a report of the current policy and we take a look at that, and then if we think it's appropriate, we can have a hearing. But to simply say we'll have a hearing based on...what? What's the point?

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Well, the point, Mr. Williams.... You've been on this committee a long time and you've seen this procedure in action. This is a system we have in the federal government, and you're quite right, there have been announcements made that they're looking at revamping, but I don't think the system has been revamped at all.

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

I thought it had.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

No, it hasn't, as far as I'm aware. This system has been around for seven or eight years. It's a system where there is no transparency at all. People have a salary, and then they have another salary that is called “at risk”, and most people earn their “at risk”.

In the private sector if you're at risk, you get fired. This is not well explained to parliamentarians.

On top of that “at-risk” level there is a bonus level.

As a member of the public accounts committee, I certainly think it would be in Parliament's best interest to have a look at this and explain, if nothing else, to parliamentarians exactly how it works. I don't think there would be too many people out there who can explain this. It's well hidden, because when we ask the question to members at that end of the table, basically all we get is mumbling under their breath.

You know and I know that we've asked the question of Mr. Guité and every person who came into this room, “Did you get your at-risk pay?” They replied, “Oh yes”. When asked, “Did you get your big bonus?” they replied, “Oh yes, I got my bonus”. It has no bearing on performance or results.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

On a point of order, we're obviously not going to exhaust all the conversation. We're at 1:05 p.m. and I have other obligations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

You have another commitment.

We can come back and review it in September. We'll put it back to the steering committee.

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

What we can do, Mr. Chairman, is get a report from the Treasury Board and then decide if we'll have a meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Yes, we'll get a report.

The meeting is adjourned.