I'm sorry.
Thank you.
Evidence of meeting #127 for Public Accounts in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was offender.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #127 for Public Accounts in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was offender.
A video is available from Parliament.
10:10 a.m.
Calgary Rocky Ridge, CPC
Commissioner Kelly, I want you to expand on some of the answers you have given already on the number and availability of beds. I heard what you said. You said there is not an aggregate shortage, but there may at any given time be shortages for specific needs or in specific regions.
Yet, on page 6, 6.32 states:
...Correctional Service Canada (CSC) did not maintain data on how many offenders were not placed in their requested communities. CSC did not record the reasons offenders were not placed in their requested communities...did not maintain data on the types of specialized housing that offenders needed in the community-based residential facilities.
Why?
10:10 a.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
Because we didn't have the information at that time. We've since added structure. We can request the information from the regions, but that's not good enough. We need to have structured fields, and that's what we've done in our offender management system, so we can have both the preferred location and where the offender is actually going.
We're also going to be tracking wait-lists and why offenders are not released once—
10:10 a.m.
Calgary Rocky Ridge, CPC
I did ask why you didn't keep track of that. That isn't an answer to that question, but if there is no answer, then I will move on.
You talked about, and Mr. Christopherson talked about, the already identified issue around health cards and the recommendations made in the past. To what extent is the health of an offender who is placed in community supervision monitored? Are these folks in good health when they are released? Is that something that is monitored or tracked? Are the health needs of offenders known at the time they are released from a custodial facility?
I'm sure mental health, of course, is long connected with offenders. We talked about substance addiction problems, but is the health of an offender well-known and documented?
10:10 a.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
Ms. Wheatley can expand, but yes, relevant health information is shared with the parole officers. As the Auditor General found, the information should be shared in a GIST, and it's not always the case. That's on us. We need to fix that. In many cases, when we reviewed the information, it was shared through the community strategy. Yes, in answer to your question, the health of the offender is known to the community.
10:10 a.m.
Assistant Commissioner, Health Services, Correctional Service of Canada
We provide essential health care to incarcerated individuals just like provincial health care plans are provided to the rest of Canada. On release, we prepare discharge planning that's relative to the health needs of the patients, because on release to the community, they become included in the Canada Health Act and the provinces become primarily responsible for their health care.
Any risk-related or management information that needs to be shared with the parole officers to manage and supervise the offender safely in the community is then shared prior to release, from health to operations. As the commissioner mentioned, we're reviewing that process, because we know information sharing is happening, but it's sometimes happening outside of the process, so we're reviewing the process to make sure the documentation is appropriate.
10:15 a.m.
Liberal
Jean Yip Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Going back to the housing pressures, especially in the large urban areas, how can CSC expect to accommodate these offenders, who are trying to reintegrate into society, when the regular population has such a problem with housing? Is that part of the community capacity analysis of the 2017 internal strategic review?
10:15 a.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
You're quite right. In terms of the availability of housing, it's not everywhere. It's mostly in metropolitan centres.
For example, we have two community correctional centres in Ontario: one in Toronto and one in Kingston. They can accommodate 40 offenders each. Many offenders want to go to Toronto. Sometimes, when it is full, they will have to go to the facility in Kingston until a bed becomes available. I got an update that there are discussions under way right now in Toronto with different partners and with the city to look at increasing the bed availability.
10:15 a.m.
Liberal
Jean Yip Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Are there any future plans to build more, in terms of longer-range anticipation of the growth that you mentioned in your report?
10:15 a.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
Sometimes it's a mix. Sometimes it's adding to facilities we already have, such as adding some beds. In certain cases, potentially, it could be building. Then it's a fairly long process because there are many considerations to take into account. Obviously, the community also has to be consulted.
10:15 a.m.
Liberal
10:15 a.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
Absolutely. Again, for CSC, a bed is not just a bed. Sometimes we require specialized beds for some offenders. We need to have the right mix in the right places.
10:15 a.m.
Liberal
Jean Yip Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
I make that comment because there seems to be a shortage and then they're waiting. Also, the low-risk offenders are waiting longer than the statutory release offenders. That's why I think it's really important that there be a longer proactive plan.
10:15 a.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
You're absolutely correct. That's what we're working on. Offenders being released on stat release have to be released by law. If there's a residency condition imposed on their stat release, we need to find them a place to reside. They would be released before offenders who have been granted day parole if we don't have enough beds. That's why, for us, it's imperative that we have a long-term, multi-year community accommodation plan.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you, Ms. Yip.
On that point, before I go to Mr. Christopherson, I recall you mentioned earlier in your testimony that you didn't really have the major problem of housing in the Atlantic region. Is the cost of the housing market...? You referenced Toronto. We all know about the cost of housing in areas like that. Are those predictably or predominantly the areas where there is a big shortage?
You have so many dollars for budget. Obviously providing housing in Toronto is much more expensive than in Truro, Nova Scotia.
10:15 a.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
Yes, that's one factor that comes into play.
10:20 a.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Thanks, Chair.
I have one thing on the housing and then two follow-up questions.
You made the statement that that there was sufficient housing in the aggregate. If you look at this report and the fact that some people have to wait two years and you have all kinds of facilities elsewhere, but nowhere for the person who's waiting two years beyond what they.... There's a mandatory requirement, but they have to go somewhere. You're keeping them in there, which does not benefit them, does not benefit society and costs taxpayers more money than it should.
You knew ahead of time this was going to happen. I just have a real problem with you saying we have all kinds of housing and it's just a little problem over here. That little problem over here is the equivalent of not having enough. If there isn't one for the instant case, then what good are all the other numbers?
The sugar-coating that sometimes goes on is frustrating. It's frustrating when it flies in the face of the report that's right in front of us.
I'm looking at recommendation 4 of your action plan. It says, “Amend Commissioner's Directive”. People do these dates different ways. I see “2019-12-01”. I'd like to think that was January 12, but I suspect it's December 1.
10:20 a.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
So it is to amend the commissioner's directive to add a responsibility to the institutional parole officer.
The next one is to amend the commissioner's directive to add a responsibility to the institutional parole officer to confirm, etc.
The next one is to amend the commissioner's directive to add a responsibility to the community parole officer, to confirm with the offender, and then on and on.
Each one of those is by December 1, 2019. Help me understand why it takes a year to amend directives.