Public Accounts Committee on Feb. 19th, 2019

[Anne Kelly]

You'll be happy to know that, actually, the policy has been revised. It's making its way to being promulgated. We are ahead of December 1.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Is that for all three?

[Anne Kelly]

That's for all three.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

So why did you put December in the first place? Was your planning that scattered, or what?

[Anne Kelly]

No, it's just because sometimes it takes a long time. This one is important. We need to do it. We need to add the responsibility. We've already discussed it with the district directors, so the policy has been amended.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Well, I have to tell you, you're doing it backwards. You have to work with your communications people. Normally, people come in here and promise deadlines that are unreasonable, and then we have to suss out what's real. In this case, you did the opposite and caused yourself a headache you didn't need.

For my last question, Chair, I'm looking at recommendation 1, which again speaks to the housing. I've read this. I won't say that I fully understand every detail, but two things stand out. One is that the dates are awfully faded. Is it disappearing ink? Is it meant to go away after a while? I'm just curious as to why it's so faint—unless you've been talking to the defence ministry staff, who say to you, “Watch it, they do follow up on what you do and say.”

I've read all of that, and here's the question I have. When do you actually start building or acquiring facilities? I see all kinds of planning. I see lots of smoke, but where's the fire? Where is the facility purchase? I'm missing that piece. It might be that I am just missing it. I accept that.

[Anne Kelly]

In some cases there is not necessarily a facility purchase; it's that in certain CBRFs they're going to be adding beds. For example, what I can say is that between—

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Where will they add the beds? Could you just show me? That was the part. I was looking for the straight-up part that said, “There will be more beds as of...boom.” I just never saw that. I saw lots of planning, lots of stuff, but I never really saw where the beds would actually arrive. That's all.

[Anne Kelly]

This is just an example. In one of the regions, there's a proposed expansion with the John Howard Society. What they're looking at in the next six months is having a number of additional beds online. This is where I said that in terms of the number of beds, for example, from 2017-18, to November 30, 61 have been added in different places. By the end of this fiscal year, there are going to be another 77 beds added, in different regions, for a total of 138. There are already 120 planned beds. There are also several potential beds that different regions are exploring adding as well.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

No, that's fine. I'll accept that here, but just know that we will be following up to make sure that these things are happening.

[Anne Kelly]

Yes.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

There are a lot of promises here, and in some cases promises have been made before to Parliament that you're going to fix things. We're going to take you at your word right now, but understand that we're going to go back and we're going to make sure that the commitments you're making to us are kept.

[Anne Kelly]

Yes, absolutely.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Very good. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

The last question goes to Mrs. Mendès.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

Thank you all for being here, and thank you for bringing us some answers, since I agree with my colleagues that we don't have the full answers.

I am very curious about the question of the identity cards, as Mr. Christopherson brought up. It seems to me that it's one of the most essential parts of our identity, to have those cards, as citizens, to know who we are and what rights we have. I also understand that a health card is suspended once somebody is incarcerated, because health becomes a federal responsibility.

When they are liberated into the community, and it becomes, again, a provincial responsibility, do they also go through the three-month waiting period similar to, for example, new immigrants or those who make an interprovincial move?

[Anne Kelly]

I'll let Jennifer answer.

[Jennifer Wheatley]

Like a lot of things in Canada, it depends on the province.

Some provinces will reinstate health care immediately upon release if you were in that province prior to being incarcerated.

If you are released to a province you weren't residing in before, some provinces will do the three-month coverage and other provinces won't.

It's province by province. We're tracking the barriers to accessing both the health card and the services on a province by province level.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

If some provinces give that three-month delayed admission period, would the federal government cover that three-month wait period on health services?

[Jennifer Wheatley]

We do provide limited health services in the community, recognizing gaps in care.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

I'm more preoccupied with the mental health services, because for those who have issues I think that's probably the most urgent thing they need once they're released.

[Jennifer Wheatley]

We spend approximately $16 million a year on health services in the community.

That's above and beyond what provinces are providing.

Of that $16 million, $13 million goes directly to mental health services.

The vast majority is focused on the mental health needs of the offenders.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

Is this being tracked in a manner that it's easy to access?

[Jennifer Wheatley]

The expenditures? Yes.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

To see province by province?