Public Accounts Committee on Feb. 19th, 2019

[Jennifer Wheatley]

For sure we could do it region by region for the five regions. I'm not sure if we could do it province by province.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

Okay, but five regions is already quite good.

Would it be possible to send it to us?

[Jennifer Wheatley]

Yes, absolutely.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

I'd appreciate it.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

I have a couple of questions.

As you all know, after every study we write a report. Some of these questions come from our analysts, giving them full credit for good questions.

But recommendation 6.77 in the report:

Correctional Service Canada should broaden its measures of the successful reintegration of federal offenders as law-abiding citizens after they complete their sentences to better reflect its mandate.

In your action plan, however, you've provided a response and the next steps but you have not provided a date of completion. I'm wondering if you could please explain why, on recommendation 6.77. The action plan talks about what you're going to do, but unlike the other recommendations there is no definite expectation of completion.

[Anne Kelly]

That's because we're working both with Public Safety and Statistics Canada. In speaking with our partners, we could see if we could get a timeline for this one.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

All right. Thank you.

I am pleased with this meeting in that I think all our members will recognize the amount of time we have taken to talk about data again. I counted five specific issues where data wasn't gathered, maintained, managed, or wasn't available; it didn't include the data on the convictions. Some of those came out in today's meeting, I'm pleased about that.

I have a final question to CSC. Why, between 2014-15, and 2017-18, did the number of offenders under community supervision increase by 17%? Was there an increase in the prison population preceding those years or were more offenders than normal released early? Was it based on a lack of room in some of our institutions or was it just a goal to increase community service?

What happened there to create that extra 17%?

[Anne Kelly]

It's a combination of things. Certainly, there are more offenders being released earlier on day parole. We've really pushed staff to ensure that offenders have eligibility dates, and as much as possible, they should be enrolled in programs and have completed the programs by the time they are eligible. Their case should be prepared so they can see the Parole Board. We've really pushed on that. That's one thing.

The other thing that I appeared before this committee earlier to talk about is our new initiative with indigenous offenders, where we've created aboriginal intervention centres, especially for those who are medium security, who are serving shorter sentences. We really want them to get into programs in a timely fashion. Once they have successfully completed the program, we reassess them and we want their cases presented to the Parole Board. Just by the increase, which I think is 36% for indigenous offenders, we can see that it is working.

The other reason is that we have fewer revocations. Fewer offenders are returning to federal custody, which again is a testament to the good work being done by parole officers, program officers and mental health professionals in the community.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

I've chaired the public safety and national security committees before, and I think sometimes we get the feeling that we want to push people through the system as quickly as we can. I can tell you that while they are incarcerated they have resources available to them that many of them don't follow through with once they're out in the community.

Is there ever a time when people in prison have not completed some of their programming, yet they are moved into community service?

There is good programming for addiction or to provide people with a career when they get out, or at least the potential for a job when they get out. Are we seeing that, regardless of whether the program is completed or not, they are sometimes moved into community supervision?

[Anne Kelly]

Yes, it does happen sometimes that they don't get the chance to complete, for example, their education. They may not have time to complete the full program. That's why we offer maintenance programs in the community, so they can follow up once they get back into the community.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

The words there are “they can” or “they could”. Do you have the statistics on those people whose programming while incarcerated is not completed? How many of them continue and finish that programming when they are out, and how many just walk away from it?

[Anne Kelly]

Yes, we have that data and we will be pleased to provide it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you.

I thank both our Auditor General's office and our Correctional Service of Canada for appearing before us here today.

As you leave here, you might think “Well, I missed that one question”, or maybe, “I was rudely cut off by the chair and didn't get an opportunity to finish my answer”. As well, there are others who have been asked to provide information to our committee. Could I encourage you to do that? If you have some things that you have committed to, could you forward that to our clerk so it will be here in time for us to write a report on this meeting?

Thank you very much. I would ask the committee to stick around. We have a few minutes of committee business.

The meeting is suspended.

[Proceedings continue in camera]