Evidence of meeting #27 for Public Accounts in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Are we planning to have a report to study before May 27?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly Block
Do you mean the report in relation to the amended motion that was passed earlier?
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
No. We've already done the studies. I was asking whether the analysts were going to table a report by May 27. Is a meeting scheduled to study the report?
If required, we could, as we did on Thursday, immediately arrange with Madam Clerk to extend the meeting by an hour, from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m. or from 1 p.m. to 1:30 p.m., to work on the study and meet the people Mr. Blanchette-Joncas would like to meet.
As we would be studying a report at the same time, we wouldn't be losing a meeting to hold this special briefing.
Committee Researcher
Initially, a meeting had been planned for May 25 to study the first reports to become available.
However, because we had to hold a second meeting to study this matter and now need to add an hour-long meeting for a briefing, things have been complicated somewhat.
Depending on the date we decide upon for this briefing, we might perhaps hold an initial meeting on two draft reports on May 13, but we have to check whether this is possible. I can't confirm it at the moment.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly Block
It sounds to me like members around the table are in support of Mr. Blanchette-Joncas' motion. We could leave the details of the calendar to the chair, the clerk and the analyst. We can review it to propose changes to what we've already put in place and try to work out a way to fit these things into it, if that would meet with your approval. If that's acceptable to you, we could continue our debate on the motion and then determine if you are ready to vote on it.
Are there any other comments on the motion? I do not see any.
Are you ready for me to call the question on Mr. Blanchette-Joncas' motion? It looks like you are.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly Block
Are you ready for me to call the question on Mr. Blanchette-Joncas' motion?
Madam Clerk, do we need to have a recorded vote?
The Clerk
If the committee is in agreement and there's no discord, then it can be by unanimous consent. Otherwise, we have to have a recorded vote.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly Block
Thank you very much.
Do we have unanimous consent? We absolutely do. Thank you, colleagues.
(Motion agreed to)
The clerk, analysts and I will take a look at our calendar to see how we can manipulate it to fit all of the things in that we have agreed to do.
Mr. Blanchette-Joncas, we will return to you for your line of questioning.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
On another item of information, about the absence today of the deputy minister of finance, Mr. Sabia, I'd like to know when you found out that he was going to be absent.
You only told us at the beginning of the committee meeting.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly Block
I believe we learned that he was not going to be available early this morning. Is that right, Madam Clerk?
The Clerk
It was confirmed early this morning that he had a conflict. They did let us know yesterday that he wouldn't be able to attend.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Madam Chair and Madam Clerk, I'd simply like to understand the normal procedure when witnesses are absent.
We learned about it at the beginning of the meeting after we had prepared our questions, and people who should have been appearing before the committee today were not there. Is this the sort of thing that happens often?
It seems to me that this changes the focus of the meeting.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly Block
Thank you very much, Mr. Blanchette-Joncas.
In my opening remarks I did state that Mr. Sabia sent his regrets. I do recognize that you came prepared to possibly have the opportunity to ask questions of the witnesses who were in attendance on Thursday. Unfortunately, with a conflict in his schedule, he could not be here today. We do have the associate assistant deputy minister with us, but I do take your point.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Madam Chair, let's continue. There is no point in wasting too much time on that.
I would nevertheless like to use my speaking time to say that it would have been preferable to have known in advance. You knew yesterday. I know that you can't be watching your emails 24 hours a day, but a lot of people spend time preparing for committees and when we don't get the people we were expecting, it upsets our plans.
Thank you, Madam Chair and Madam Clerk, for these additional details.
I now have some questions for Mr. Marsland.
Mr. Marsland, I'm trying to understand what was done about cabinet confidence. Is this the sort of thing that occurs regularly at the Department of Finance?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
If I understand the question correctly, Madam Chair, it's about how we prepare proposals for policies to be implemented.
Typically, these are brought forward for approval in the context of cabinet confidence when they involve legislative changes to this program.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
I want to be sure that I've understood correctly, Mr. Marsland.
You don't decide whether something is confidential if it's a cabinet confidence. It's the Privy Council that asks you directly not to disclose certain information to members of the committee, nor to make it public. Is that correct?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
I'm not sure, Madam Chair, that I would characterize the process that way. The processes and proposals are prepared. Recommendations are prepared by the public service. They are brought forward to ministers. It's not on a document-by-document basis that decisions are made. These documents are by their nature cabinet confidences and are therefore protected by the legislative and policy protections in place.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Mr. Marsland, the question is whether the Department of Finance or the Privy Council decides to make it confidential.
Is it your department that makes this decision?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
It is essentially the nature of the document that dictates its protection. The document is a document that brings forward recommendations that require approval by ministers, and that is the nature that characterizes the document. It's not a decision in relation to the document; it's the nature of the document itself.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Mr. Marsland, does the Department of Finance or the Privy Council make the decision, notwithstanding the nature of the document?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Again, Madam Chair, I don't think it's a decision that's made. It's the nature of the document itself that dictates its status, and ultimately who decides what—
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Mr. Marsland, depending on the nature of the document relevant to the Auditor General's report, was it the Department of Finance or the Privy Council that made the decision?