Evidence of meeting #120 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was desjarlais.
A recording is available from Parliament.
The Clerk
Here is the motion:
That the Standing Committee on Public Accounts report to the House that the Member for Thunder Bay—Superior North has refused to testify before the committee on matters relating to Report 2, Housing in First Nations Communities, of the 2024 Reports 2 to 4 of the Auditor General of Canada and that the committee recommends that the House order the Member for Thunder Bay—Superior North to appear before the committee on a date and time to be determined by this committee.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
I'll turn now to my speaking list.
I have Ms. Yip to begin with.
Liberal
Jean Yip Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Thank you, Chair.
On the letter that was sent, I just feel that there is a process and a progression that I feel we should take before we go to what the motion has suggested.
I would like to propose that before going straight to the House, we send another letter to ask the minister to come at another time and to make very clear what the intent is and to perhaps look at the schedule a little bit more closely. I think going from A to Z is perhaps a little bit.... It could be done in a such a way that we perhaps give the minister another chance to consider our request.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you.
Ms. Shanahan, you expressed an interest in speaking. You have the floor, please.
Liberal
Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC
Yes, Chair.
I think you'll recall that when this request came up a few meetings ago, I spoke to the fact that this committee, the public accounts committee, is doing the work of reviewing the Auditor General's reports, which typically has... More than typically, it was actually a former NDP member, David Christopherson, who fought for the imperative that this committee see deputy ministers, because he saw at the time—and was quite emphatic when many of us new members in 2015 joined the public accounts committee—that it's about the accountability in the delivery mechanism.
I share the concerns of Mr. Desjarlais in the sense that this topic, in various ways and forms, has been treated by the Auditor General's office, and it feels like the results are not being felt on the ground, and that is, I think, after successive changes in policy and direction and certainly a massive influx of investment into Indigenous Affairs never before seen in the history of our government. As this committee has been able to determine, through questions and testimony from department officials, it very often has to do with gaps in data collection, inability to work collaboratively with indigenous communities and a kind of colonial historical blindness and deafness to what, on the ground, is going on.
In other cases, when there were good intentions and a desire to move quickly to fix problems such as boil water advisories, I think of some of the policies of previous governments to simply go in and build a water treatment plant, to invest money but then not ensure there was capacity in the community to maintain and keep that water treatment plant going. There could have been more consultation, more serious consultation, more attention and more informed delivery by the people in our public service to whom we have entrusted these policies and programs to execute, which indeed didn't happen, until, I think, there was a sea change in the approach.
We actually see in the matter of boil water advisories a significant improvement. I think that is a testament to our public servants, who—
Conservative
Jake Stewart Conservative Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB
Can Ms. Shanahan confirm that she's filibustering?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
That's not a point of order.
Ms. Shanahan, you have the floor.
Conservative
Jake Stewart Conservative Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB
Either we're inviting the minister to come or we're not.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
I'm sorry, Mrs. Shanahan. I'm hearing another point of order. I think that was from Mr. Desjarlais.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
It's a point of order on relevance, Mr. Chair.
If I can, I'll comment quickly. If the Liberals are going to filibuster, I don't have any more energy for this—
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Mr. Desjarlais, I see your hand. I appreciate your thoughts. Mrs. Shanahan has the floor and she's well within her rights on these topics.
Ms. Gaudreau, do you have a point of order?
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Yes, Mr. Chair.
How long is this meeting supposed to last? Have people been allowed to—
Conservative
Bloc
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
It is a bit like a soccer game. It continues until I say there is no more time left. For now, we still have some time left.