Public Accounts Committee on Sept. 25th, 2024

[Lysane Bolduc]

Thank you very much for the question, Mr. Chair.

In fact, I got these policies and looked at them. When I looked at them, I realized that the meeting was very strongly mandatory for her under the policies I reviewed.

The reason I did not provide those policies to Ms. Daly was that, as I explained previously, I was genuinely trying to offer my offer. When I got hold of this policy, she had already accepted to meet with the CBSA. There was no point at that time for me to provide these policies—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I don't accept that. I don't accept that at all.

You're trying to portray yourself as being really kind to your employees. An employee expresses reservations and concern, feeling pressured to participate in an interview that she doesn't want to do. She asks you a legitimate question: Give me evidence of policy. You find policy and you deliberately withhold it from her.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you, Mr. Brock.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

That is not good enough.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

[Inaudible—Editor]

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Mr. Drouin, I'm about accountability.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Order.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Maybe you're not, but I am.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Order.

Next is Mr. Erskine-Smith.

You have the floor for five minutes, please.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Thanks very much, Chair.

Let me start with this. You're coming in after the fact. You are part of the investigation by the sounds of it. You've started to articulate your version of the MS Teams meeting.

What could possibly have happened during that meeting for Ms. Daly to think that she was being pressured to provide false testimony? Is there anything at all, in your recollection? What could she possibly be pointing to?

[Lysane Bolduc]

Mr. Chair, I would prefer not to speculate on Ms. Daly's motivations to feel pressure. As I explained earlier, when the investigator from the CBSA contacted me, he explained that there were gaps in the facts that he was trying to put together to have the investigation completed. His motivation was to access a witness who could presumably fill in those gaps. My motivation was to ask for the co-operation of Ms. Daly as a witness as part of this investigation.

On that conversation, again, I don't know why, and I don't want to speculate as to why, Ms. Daly took away that she was being pressured to make false testimony. I don't know.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Thank you.

This is an individual who had direct dealings with Mr. Firth from GC Strategies and some direct involvement in communicating as to the contours of what the RFP was going to be. You're sitting here today in front of us, and you've not been involved throughout the ArriveCAN awarding process or the delineation of the RFP. You're at the back end of this as part of the investigation.

What's your view of Ms. Daly's involvement with GC Strategies, sitting here today?

[Lysane Bolduc]

Thank you very much for the question, Mr. Chair.

I do not want to speculate. There are two investigations under way, one with the CBSA and one with PSPC. I don't want to speculate on why.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

What individual did you report to as a consequence of your meeting with Ms. Daly? You're ultimately reporting up the ladder. Who are you reporting to?

[Lysane Bolduc]

Thank you very much for the question.

I did not report on the meeting to anybody at the time. I just did my job on that day.

At the time, I reported to the ADM of the procurement branch.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

I would have. If I felt pressured to provide false testimony in a meeting with a superior, I would have immediately put that in writing. Is there anything in writing?

[Lysane Bolduc]

Thank you very much for the question. No, there is nothing in writing to the effect that she felt pressure.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

There's just no follow-up.

From that December 14 meeting, what's the follow-up on your end? Is there anything in writing between you and Ms. Daly?

[Lysane Bolduc]

Thank you very much for the question.

I did follow up with her, actually. I did meet with her early in January to check in on her.

The holidays had passed. Again, she was not well. I, myself, was off. I just wanted to make sure that she was okay before appearing in front of the investigators of the CBSA. That was it—

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

I'm sorry for cutting you off. You don't have to thank me for each question.

When you checked in with her in January, was that in writing?

[Lysane Bolduc]

No, I just met with her.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

You never communicated with her by email.

[Lysane Bolduc]

I did not.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Did she at any time subsequent to that December 14 meeting raise concerns with you or with Mr. Von Schoenberg around intimidation or pressure?

[Lysane Bolduc]

Thank you for the question.

No, she did not raise concerns about intimidation following that meeting on December 14. In fact, I learned of how she felt when I watched the proceedings of this committee on August 7, 2024.