Public Accounts Committee on Oct. 2nd, 2024

[Cassie Doyle]

No, there have been no disbursements made because there needed to be certain recommendations of the Auditor General implemented.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you. That's fine, ma'am.

You confirmed on a number of occasions that you have yet to speak to Minister Champagne. Is that correct?

[Cassie Doyle]

That's correct.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Have you spoken to the deputy minister?

[Cassie Doyle]

Yes, we have had a discussion with the deputy minister, and other members of the ISED executive attend each of our board meetings for a period of time for the exchange of information and updates.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Okay, so you're sharing information.

Are they providing oversight or monitoring of the projects that you are about to fund? Have they weighed in? Have they made an assessment about the appropriateness of that funding?

[Cassie Doyle]

We have regular reporting to ISED, and it's under the new contribution agreement. Financial reporting goes back and forth between ISED and SDTC.

When it comes to the actual eligibility of projects, that is our responsibility as a board. Therefore, we put the process in place that I referred to a number of times.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Who are you talking to at ISED, besides the deputy minister?

[Cassie Doyle]

We are speaking with the assistant deputy minister and members of his team, I believe.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Can you supply this committee with all of those names?

[Cassie Doyle]

Yes, we could.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

You mentioned that you're reporting to ISED.

Do you know specifically who you are reporting to?

[Cassie Doyle]

We were appointed by the minister and serve at the pleasure of the government, but our reporting goes to the deputy minister.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Part of the difficulty with the previous rendition of the SDTC board was regarding this information we learned: The assistant deputy minister of ISED sat in on each and every board meeting. He had his eyes and ears on all the funding that was conflicted, and all the funding that went to Liberal insiders. Whether or not that was passed up the chain to Minister Champagne still, to this day, remains a mystery—hence the scandal.

You obviously have had a number of board meetings, smaller in nature, since your appointment. Has the assistant deputy minister sat in on those meetings?

[Cassie Doyle]

The new contribution agreement specifies exactly what the nature of the connection is between the board and ISED.

The assistant deputy minister, or his or her representative, attends one portion of the board for the strict purpose of the exchange of updates, and then leaves the board. They are not present during any of our board business.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

How on earth does it enhance oversight when that particular assistant deputy minister merely receives an update and is not privy to ensuring that all actions and the decisions you make are in accordance with the updated contribution agreement? That was the whole purpose behind the old contribution agreement—that there would be some degree of oversight.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you, Mr. Brock.

I'll allow—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Am I hearing that there's no oversight?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Ms. Doyle, you have the floor.

[Cassie Doyle]

The oversight is very well documented now in the new contribution agreement. It is through a series of reporting. As an independent agency.... As specified under the act, oversight is not done by having a member of ISED sitting in on the board, but rather through regular reporting—both financial reporting and program reporting—to the department.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Drouin, you have five minutes.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Ms. Doyle, for appearing before this committee.

I noticed that you have extensive experience serving both in government and outside of government. I noticed that you were deputy minister at Natural Resources—I think you mentioned this—from 2006 to 2010.

With regard to the contribution agreement, and just in general, in terms of your experience serving in government.... When we talk about oversight, ISED's interest is in whether or not the board is respecting the contribution agreement you signed. It's not necessarily getting involved in minutiae and day-to-day operations.

Is that correct?

[Cassie Doyle]

Yes, I'd say that's correct.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Okay.

I was worried, because I have a lot of organizations back home that have signed various contribution agreements with various departments, and they would be quite concerned if a minister, political staffer or deputy minister was involved in their day-to-day operations.

Obviously, there are reporting mechanisms. It doesn't mean there is no oversight. It just means the contribution agreement you signed with said department.... It's about whether or not you are respecting the legal entente, if I can say that, with said department.

Is that correct?

[Cassie Doyle]

Yes, the essence of a contribution agreement is to ensure accountability to the government.