Evidence of meeting #147 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sdtc.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Andrée-Lise Méthot  Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual

12:20 p.m.

Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual

Andrée-Lise Méthot

We did a study in 2016. I travelled across the country. I met with people in the provinces. I met with representatives from the federal government as well as from the private sector. At the end of the study, we found that Canadian entrepreneurs received half as much funding as their American counterparts. However, the climate technology sector is going to be extremely important. That's why people like Bill Gates are investing billions of dollars in the sector. I will also say that it worries me that Canada is lagging behind in sector investment.

Another very important study we did was on intellectual property. Right now, countries like China own more than 90% of the intellectual property in certain sectors, including the water sector. It worries me that Canada isn't doing enough in the climate technology sector. I urge private and public sector stakeholders to pursue their involvement in Canada's climate technologies. Everyone is calling for measures to address climate change, but the important thing is to hurry up and invest in Canadian companies. That will position Canada as a significant player internationally. Right now Canada isn't, because of the underinvestment in Canadian companies by the public sector and the private sector alike.

I have been committed to this work for 35 years. I think we can excel in technology and in business, that we can build very large companies and make Canada a key player on the world stage. My worry right now is that we aren't doing that.

Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

You've stated that you think we're underinvesting in this sector compared to other countries; however, it is a highly competitive and high-performing sector in Canada. A few years ago, the industry accounted for 2.9% to 3.3% of Canada's GDP.

Would you have any idea what it represents today as a percentage of GDP?

12:20 p.m.

Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual

Andrée-Lise Méthot

Sorry, but I don't know. I'm not an economist.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative John Williamson

Thank you.

We now go to Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné for two and a half minutes.

Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC

Ms. Méthot, during my last turn, I used the word “arbitrary” to describe the fact that certain projects received SDTC funding, while similar projects didn't. You explained that you didn't think that was the case.

I have many examples of projects that SDTC funded despite being advised not do so by external expert reviewers. In all those cases, the companies that were funded had ties to someone at SDTC.

In the case of Miovision, you weren't there anymore, but—

12:20 p.m.

Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual

Andrée-Lise Méthot

No, we were never an investor.

Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC

I know. In the case of Miovision, you weren't there anymore and you weren't an investor. However, it's an example of a project that received SDTC funding, even though the external expert reviewer advised against it. The reviewer was subsequently asked to rewrite their opinion.

In another case, you were still at SDTC. You weren't an investor, so there wasn't a conflict of interest, but there was a problem in that the project didn't meet the eligibility criteria. I'm talking about Farmers Edge. SDTC asked the external expert reviewer to revise their recommendation on the company. You told me that you tried to balance the opinions of the external expert reviewer; the SDTC team, staff and management; the project review committee; and the board. You said there seemed to be a balance. Why, then, ask an external expert reviewer to revise their recommendation on a project submitted by a company that had ties to someone at SDTC?

12:25 p.m.

Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual

Andrée-Lise Méthot

I'd like to clarify something about the process, Ms. Sinclair‑Degagné. Before a project goes to the project review committee, the SDTC team has to have approved it. That was the case for all the projects. If the application wasn't—

Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC

That's actually problematic. If the external expert reviewer—

October 28th, 2024 / 12:25 p.m.

Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual

Andrée-Lise Méthot

No, please listen.

Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC

This is my speaking time, but I will let you finish. Please be quick.

12:25 p.m.

Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual

Andrée-Lise Méthot

We didn't see any proposal that the team hadn't recommended.

Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC

That's my point. It may have been a problem. If the CEO's friend was connected to a project that the external expert reviewer recommended not be funded—

12:25 p.m.

Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual

Andrée-Lise Méthot

I hope the president and CEO was honest.

Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC

The SDTC team still submitted the project, though, so that's a problem. You're saying that, yes, that is what happened at SDTC. That's precisely my point. There was a connection.

12:25 p.m.

Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual

Andrée-Lise Méthot

The project had to meet certain criteria.

Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC

The company still received funding even though the external expert reviewers advised against it.

12:25 p.m.

Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual

Andrée-Lise Méthot

I can try to give you an answer, but the situation is complex.

All the applications submitted met the criteria.

Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC

All right.

12:25 p.m.

Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual

Andrée-Lise Méthot

A project can satisfy the criteria without meeting all of them perfectly. For example, it's possible to have 75% and meet the criteria, like when a student gets their degree.

Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC

In this case, though, when the external expert reviewer recommended that the project not receive funding, SDTC had the reviewer's advice changed.

It's a major problem. It was done so the companies would get funding.

12:25 p.m.

Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual

Andrée-Lise Méthot

I didn't work on the operations side. I never saw that.

Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC

You never saw that ever?

12:25 p.m.

Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual

Andrée-Lise Méthot

No, I didn't work on the operations side.

However, I did see board members identify weaknesses in a project. They would then tell people that they had to improve their performance in order to obtain funding.

We're there to advise. As board members, we have a role to play. The board doesn't just rubber-stamp everything. The board is made up of people who are smart. They consider everything and are able to identify weaknesses in the project. For example, if the intellectual property isn't adequately protected, the company is asked to go back to the drawing board. I've seen that from time to time.

12:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative John Williamson

Thank you very much.

Up next is Mr. Cannings.

You have the floor for two and a half minutes.