Public Accounts Committee on Oct. 21st, 2022

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I appreciate your efficiency.

I'm sorry I had to cut off a few questions. I'm going to try to be a little bit more rigorous. I will always endeavour to give the witnesses the last word. If you start arguing with them after your time has elapsed, I'm going to cut it off there because that's extra time.

I'm going to try to summarize where we're at. Hopefully in the next 22 minutes we can come to an agreement. We have some witnesses who will be appearing over the next two weeks, which takes us to the November recess. I believe when we last left, we had general, but not uniform, consensus to look at the hydrogen study and the remote communities. There was a proposal to bring in the Auditor General and officials from Treasury and Finance for an update on the Auditor General's office and how it's—

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Chair, I have a point of order.

I don't see either Han Dong or Brenda Shanahan present.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

They left.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Was it a separate link?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

No, it's the same.

Could you maybe just text them and have them come back to the original link?

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Mrs. Shanahan says that's she's waiting to be let in.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I won't move too quickly. I'll wait until everyone's back in, for fair play.

Mrs. Shanahan is back, and Han, hopefully, will join us very quickly if he's not on already.

That was the third thing. The fourth is to bring back the witnesses we did not get a chance to question on the greening the government strategy. That was where we left things and then we ran out of time last time. That's where we're at. I've taken the step to begin to slot people in because obviously witnesses can't show up immediately, but I do need directions from this committee.

Okay, hands are going up. I see Kelly, Nathalie and then Blake.

Kelly, you have the floor.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I want to follow up on what we, and Mr. Genuis, were chatting about in the last one about the need to have the AG, the Treasury Board and Finance here to talk about resources and what the strike was. There are some unsettled questions about that, which I think are very serious. It's also about future labour relations as they affect the hopefully fully independent Auditor General. I'd like to see that as a full meeting.

I think I'm fine with that. I'll pass it over to Blake and Nathalie.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you.

Monsieur Desjarlais, go ahead.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

I think that's a good plan for me. I think that, in conversations with our colleagues, we have consensus on that, I hope.

One addition is the half-day that you mentioned just at the top and bringing in some of those witnesses. It would be great if we could slot the final hour to study the aquatic species audit.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I'm going to rebuff you on that, for two reasons. First, there's no problem with that, but we do need a little time to discuss the calendar after November. These officials are superb, but we do need a little lead time to set meetings up. You can prioritize that for post-November recess.

I believe you had something to add, Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

I completely agree with Mr. Desjarlais. I think we have general agreement on the next three meetings and the last one, with a bit of time for committee business. Everyone likes time for committee business. It works for me.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you.

I'll look to my colleagues on the government side for a response, if any, to that. Perhaps there have been discussions and we've gone from general acceptance to agreement.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Yes, we agree, although I do have to point out that the Auditor General did already come in and did substantially already answer many of the questions. However, we see that there is general consensus on your side and our side.

I'd just like to hear.... Maybe this is going into the calendar. I guess we're dealing with this issue first. Then we're going to see where everything is being slotted in terms of the reports and any meetings later. Is that right?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I could certainly try to address that. This is, so far, proceeding smoother than I had expected.

If there's agreement, I will then begin to share what we have pencilled in, the various dates and what's planned prior to the November break. Obviously, without your agreement, I cannot confirm anything.

I will ask, then, for a verbal agreement or a nodding of heads that we will confirm these four meetings: hydrogen; remote communities; the Auditor General, Treasury Board and Finance update on her office; and then the witnesses for greening the government, with the remainder of that time going to dealing with future committee business. Do I have agreement on that?

I'm seeing heads, and I'm seeing no dissent, so we will declare that done, Mr. Clerk.

We can now begin to double-confirm.

From what we managed to slot in already, it looks as if—and correct me if I'm wrong on this—Tuesday, October 25, will be access to benefits for hard-to-reach populations.

This is not my schedule. This is the schedule that the clerk is recommending, based on availability. I asked him to begin to reach out to people to find out their availability because some members are not available. So, that's Tuesday, October 25, for access to benefits for hard-to-reach populations.

October 28, a week from today, we'll be returning the officials for greening the government strategy. In the last half of that meeting, we'll take a look further down with respect to future business after the November recess.

November 1 is when I'm recommending, in consultation with the clerk, that we have the Auditor General in because she is not available on November 4. The Auditor General will come in on November 1 with Treasury Board and Finance officials.

November 4 will be for the hydrogen report, which I know for some members is a priority. We will get it in that day for the full two hours.

That's the schedule we have, and we will endeavour to get that out to you ASAP with those dates that are now going from tentative to firm.

Is that good?

I see that Mr. Genuis has his hand up, and then Mrs. Shanahan.

Mr. Genuis, you have the floor, please.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In terms of setting up our calendar for after the break and the discussion that we're going to have about that, or that you've tentatively set for next week's meeting, from what I understand, we're expecting the public accounts as well as more reports coming up in mid-November. I think it's important for us to.... We could have a preliminary discussion next week about what our business will look like after the break week, but I think we want to be very nimble to be able to respond if there are new things that come up that are seizing our and/or the public's attention. We should be nimble and prepared to probably just give you the authority to slot in some of those in informal consultation with members.

Thanks.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you, Mr. Genuis.

Mrs. Shanahan, are you on a similar topic, or could I respond to that with an update? I'm happy to defer to you if you have an issue that is relevant.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Go ahead.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Okay.

I might need to ask the analysts for some double confirmation on this, but as I understand it the Auditor General.... Just one second. I want to avoid any censure from the Speaker or the Auditor General's office.

November 15 is the expected tabling of the Auditor General's next series of reports, which will deal with COVID-19 benefits and the review. That's potentially a day that....

Could you just remind me, do we normally have the Auditor General in for an in camera presentation that morning or that day?

[Dillan Theckedath, Committee Researcher]

If she's available, we do. They have the press release. They have those press conferences. As soon as possible after the tabling, we have an in camera meeting.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Is that during committee hours or is that separate?

[Dillan Theckedath]

It's usually during committee hours.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Okay, so there's, potentially, our first or second meeting right there, to begin to get an overview of those reports.

[Dillan Theckedath]

Chair, it doesn't have to be the whole hour.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

That's fair enough.

Then could one of you just remind me, or all of us, when the public accounts are tabled, what does that trigger right away from this committee, if anything, in terms of review?