Public Accounts Committee on Feb. 10th, 2022

[Dr. Harpreet S. Kochhar]

Madam Chair, I would note that the pandemic is still ongoing, and newer variants of concern do present themselves. It is not possible nor feasible for anyone to predict when that would be ending. However, there is a procedure that the WHO follows where it depicts the start and end of the pandemic. Let me assure you, Madam Chair, that we're not waiting until the end of the pandemic. As I mentioned earlier, we're continuing to fine-tune our ways of looking at what—

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Dr. Kochhar, respectfully, you are waiting until the end of a pandemic, because you said that the one-year timeline will start with the declaration of WHO, and you have no idea when that will be. It could be years from now, so that's simply not so....

[Dr. Harpreet S. Kochhar]

Madam Chair, I want to make sure that I was clear: We are continuing to make improvements; we are not waiting until the end. However, to clearly demonstrate that we have followed everything based on the lessons learned, based on the information available and at the end of the declaration that it has ended, within one year we will have a comprehensive plan, but again, re-emphasizing the fact—

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you, Dr. Kochhar. It's my time. Thank you for that.

Whereas COVID will be with us forever, it appears that the position of PHAC is to avoid accountability forever.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Jean Yip]

Thank you.

I would like to mention that the committee can request interim progress reports as needed.

We will now move on to Ms. Bradford for five minutes.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Thank you very much.

I'd like to thank our witnesses for joining us today and giving us their perspective on what happened so we might be better prepared for next time. I think that's the goal of all of us here on the committee, to look at what happened. There will be another pandemic, unfortunately, and we want to be best prepared.

My first question I want to address to the deputy auditor general.

When was the last time the national emergency strategic stockpile was reviewed by the public accounts committee prior to the outbreak of COVID?

[Andrew Hayes]

I'm sorry, but I don't have that information. I'm not sure.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Okay.

We do know that the reports indicated from our last pandemic when we were dealing with SARS.... It seems a lot of those recommendations were not followed up on.

Perhaps this is going to be a question for Dr. Kochhar, but I want to say that, in your report, you state that a supply-and-demand modelling tool was developing during this process. Can you tell us when this was developed and what impact it had on our managing the supply going forward? Is that better answered by Dr. Kochhar?

[Andrew Hayes]

I do think it is a question for the Public Health Agency of Canada. I will say that, in our report, we did comment on the fact that it is important to have agreements with the provinces and to work collaboratively with them, which was done at the beginning of the development process; however, I do think the Public Health Agency is in a better position to answer.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Here is another question for you then. Will the AG be following up to see if the recommendations from this report are implemented going forward?

[Andrew Hayes]

We do have a follow-up process to track and monitor results, so this will be one of the reports that we do follow-up work on over the course of time. Of course, we do need to see action by the departments in order to be able to report any results, but we do keep our eye on what's going on.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

When do you think you might be following up on the recommendations on these with the various departments?

[Andrew Hayes]

Without getting too specific, because I know there were questions about when the recommendations will be entirely implemented, we will conduct work from time to time. I can't give you a precise date, but I would say it wouldn't be outside the realm of likelihood that we would be looking at this in about a year, year and a half.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Okay, great.

Dr. Kochhar, how often will the stockpile be monitored on an ongoing basis going forward?

[Dr. Harpreet S. Kochhar]

Madam Chair, the stockpile is actually monitored very regularly. We have a demand-and-supply modelling, and we have the forecasting modelling. We do have the information at our fingertips as we develop that model. This is monitored continuously.

I'll invite my colleague Cindy Evans to elaborate a little bit further on that point.

[Cindy Evans, Vice-President, Emergency Management, Public Health Agency of Canada]

To reiterate, as Dr. Kochhar has said, the stockpile is monitored on an ongoing basis. As well, we certainly profit from our ongoing collaboration with the provinces and territories. As part of our governance structure in response to a public health event, a biological event, we have a logistics advisory committee whereby we are repeatedly talking to them about the variety of product holdings, as well as distribution models. I think that was previously referenced. Certainly we will work with them in terms of the allocation model.

We've also taken advantage of reaching out with experts in the field to inform us on forward-looking requirements in terms of what ICU biomedical equipment would be most relevant in the case of a respiratory illness of this nature, so we are continuously looking at the whole thing.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

I know my time is about to expire. Quickly, I hope these reviews look at expiration dates, because that was the problem. It's not just numbers. It's that we make sure they're current.

There's one last question that I think is really important to a lot of us here. Canada has a lot of domestic capacity in manufacturing PPE. Many companies stepped up in the early stages of the pandemic and shifted production to producing PPE. How much of the PPE stock in NESS purchased by PHAC was domestically manufactured? Can someone give us an answer?

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Jean Yip]

A quick answer, please.

[Dr. Harpreet S. Kochhar]

Certainly.

We have the information in terms of the domestically manufactured PPE. For example, 70% of Public Health Agency contracts on N95s are domestic, and we have two multi-year contracts on N95s with Medicom and 3M Canada. There's a varying percentage, Madam Chair—50% of surgical masks are domestically procured, 100% of face shields—

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Jean Yip]

Thank you.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I'm sorry, Chair, I have a point of order.

Could we get that in writing from PHAC? I think that was an excellent question, and I'd like the full response.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Jean Yip]

Thank you.

Next we have Ms. Sinclair-Desgagné for 2.5 minutes, please.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to take my colleague's excellent question a step further.

We have talked a lot about the importance of having a stockpile. That is essential for our preparations. However, we also have the issue of refurbishing the stockpile, and we have not talked as much about that. To ensure that our inventory is renewed and to be better prepared, we particularly need local production. It is easier to acquire supplies locally, of course.

Is there a coordinated approach with other departments, especially Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada, to look more at local production, in order to both provide the inventory we need and to make sure that it is refurbished?

[Dr. Harpreet S. Kochhar]

Certainly one of the key lessons learned has been not only to look at the pieces about forecasting and about which products we should be stocking in this strategic stockpile, but also the domestic biomanufacturing piece.

The domestic biomanufacturing piece is an important one, because we continue to procure from different domestic manufacturers. I was mentioning earlier that 100% of face shields are procured from a domestic manufacturer. We have 50% of surgical masks that are procured by the Public Health Agency, and these are domestically manufactured. We have others that are N95 respirators.

We have been working with ISED, PSPC and other colleagues in the federal family, as well as with stakeholders, to make sure we have the appropriate kinds of both equipment and PPE sourced from domestic suppliers. That constitutes a major part of our stockpile.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you very much.