Public Accounts Committee on April 17th, 2023

[Marie-Claude Cardin]

I should have the number right away, but I would say it's about $400 million per year.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Right, and this is what I want to get at, again, to follow up on Mr. Kram's and Mr. Desjarlais's comments. Taxpayers are shovelling almost a half a billion dollars a year to Via, yet it takes the Auditor General's report to get Via to act on accessibility issues. How could this have happened, and how is it acceptable that taxpayers are handing over $400 million, yet a large number of Canadians are excluded from proper service?

This is not like dealing with old infrastructure. I understand that perhaps a station somewhere has limited use and limited infrastructure, but these are some very basic things that other companies without $400 million in subsidies can get done for Canadians. How did this happen?

[Marie-Claude Cardin]

The fleet replacement program represents a $1.5‑billion investment. We have made sure that—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I'm sorry. I'm not asking about the new fleet. Via got $400 million. I'm talking about the general failure with regard to accessibility for a large portion of Canadians. How did this happen? How does Via come to the government every year for $400 million but exclude a large number of Canadians from proper service?

[Marie-Claude Cardin]

We actually don't exclude people with disabilities from our service, quite the opposite. We have a plan, and we are implementing it. We don't have to talk about the new fleet, but as far as the plan is concerned, we have a team—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Why do we need a plan at this stage? It's 2023. Since I've come on to this committee, you've received almost $3 billion in subsidies, yet you haven't fulfilled your mandate to serve a certain demographic.

I'm trying to get across that I hope you take this seriously: the disappointment with regard to the inaction of Via. Tons of times you've come back to the government asking for more money, yet you've failed to serve those who have accessibility issues.

Getting back to Mr. Kram's comments, I'm seeing online that 650 Via managers got bonuses last year, for $6.5 million dollars. I realize the bonus is based on various issues. I hope Via looks seriously at this and tells the managers that unless these accessibility issues are addressed, they won't be eligible for next year.

When will the accessible trains that you have running, like in the Windsor to Quebec corridor, be rolled out to the rest of the country? I realize that perhaps in the Prairies we don't have the volumes, but that should not mean that Canadians on the Prairies don't get proper access. When will we see those rolled out?

[Marie-Claude Cardin]

There are two things I would say.

First, as you mentioned, there's the new fleet. Outside the Quebec-Windsor corridor, our trains are accessible, but not fully. I'm going to ask Ms. Langlois to tell you the major differences.

As for the stations outside the corridor, we have an existing plan to put measures in place. The plan is being implemented as we speak, and that is of course thanks to funding received in recent years.

Ms. Langlois, I'm going to let you provide more information.

[Catherine Langlois]

All right.

Mr. McCauley, thank you for your question and your interest—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I'm sorry to interrupt.

Can you provide us with that plan or provide a Coles Notes and a timeline for when these issues will be addressed?

[Marie-Claude Cardin]

Definitely.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Thank you.

Is that my time, sir?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

You have about 20 seconds. That's time for a question, if you'd like.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

What is the percentage of employees in management who have not completed the training? You mentioned just two executives. What is the overall percentage for regular employees and management who have not completed the required training?

[Marie-Claude Cardin]

As we speak, I believe 91% of all employees have completed the training. Of course, we always have new people who join the company. When I say all employees, I mean frontline employees on the trains, maintenance centre staff and so on. As we mentioned, the training is mandatory. The training completion rate for executives is 100%.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you.

Ms. Yip, you have the floor for five minutes, please.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I'd like to welcome Ms. Semaan, as it's her first time. It's not our usual committee. Usually, we try to focus on the good work done by the Auditor General and her team.

On that note, my question is directed to Ms. Pégeot and Ms. Cardin. It's with regard to your opening statements about it being crucial for transportation service providers to instill a culture of accessibility at all levels of their organizations.

How do you propose to do this, especially when not everyone on the management team has completed the mandatory accessibility training on time?

[France Pégeot]

We have different tools to support that. Of course, the big framework is the legislative and the regulatory framework, which really serves as a foundation. We have the ATPDR, the accessible transportation regulations. We have a brand new regulation with respect to reporting and planning. That's where transportation service providers have to provide publicly, every three years, based on consultations with people with disabilities, how they intend to advance accessibility.

With respect to the regulation for which we are also responsible, I responded to your colleague earlier about how we have asked companies how they intended to meet the regulation. We also asked for evidence about how they were meeting the regulation, so it was not just a survey, to be very precise on that. I would say that was a first step.

In the context of our mandate, we do compliance and enforcement activities. We also develop guides to help the various transportation service providers meet the regulation. When my colleagues and I meet with executives, we really encourage them and insist on the fact that they should treat this as a priority.

Recently, for example, the national airline association CEOs issued a statement in which they recognized that they have to do better and committed to doing better in the area of accessibility. We will certainly look with interest at how they intend to follow up on that, but the fact is that they recognized that. I don't take full credit, as that would not be fair, but I hope that the various interventions we've made in that area supported that.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you.

Ms. Cardin.

[Marie-Claude Cardin]

As I mentioned, accessibility is definitely a major concern for Via Rail. As I've said a few times throughout the meeting, it's an issue our management committee talks about. We have made sure that everyone will receive the training, and we adhere to accessibility standards as much as we can. We still have work to do, but with each new project, we make sure that people with mobility issues and persons with disabilities are properly consulted.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you.

I'd like to give the remainder of my time to Mr. Fragiskatos.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

It's a quick point, Mr. Chair. I don't think I'll have enough time to engage in questioning today.

Ms. Cardin, if you were here, I would have approached you after the meeting. It doesn't relate to the matters raised in the report, but it certainly does relate to Via. On behalf of constituents, and I know you're not primarily responsible for this at Via, but train 82, which services London to Toronto, has been in a difficult state. It hasn't been servicing commuters from our city. I hope that Via does its due diligence to restore service, because it's an ongoing issue for Londoners, particularly as they seek to travel to Toronto to carry out various activities, including work.

I'll leave that with you. I wouldn't be living up to my responsibilities if I didn't take the opportunity to put that on the record, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

The work of an MP never ends, and there are many different aspects to our job, so your comments are certainly welcome here when we have officials before us.

I want to thank everyone for coming in today. I appreciate your patience with us.

I will now adjourn the meeting. We will see committee members back here on Thursday.

The meeting is adjourned.