Public Accounts Committee on April 17th, 2023

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

The last question is this: Overall, in the study, are there infrastructure issues, or is it more about following up on the training? What issues should we focus on? Is it a smattering of both, in providing proper access to all Canadians?

[Karen Hogan]

I would say it's many things.

The old fleets don't necessarily have to meet current or new accessibility requirements, but the new fleets do, so it's a continuous process. Many of the services are on demand. If an individual arrives in a wheelchair, the people working that day need to know how to support that individual in gaining access to a train, and so on. There are a lot of training requirements about the facilities, individuals and websites.

I think it's across the gamut, if we want transportation to be barrier-free in the country.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Thank you.

Ms. Cardin, you mentioned that all senior management, except for a couple, have now gone through the training.

What is your plan to stop backsliding? It would appear to me, cynically, that the training is caught up only because of the AG report. What is Via doing to ensure this is actually done as part of a regular process and not only when the Auditor General catches you?

[Marie-Claude Cardin]

Thank you for your question.

Since the Auditor General's report came out, we've implemented a stringent follow‑up process to make sure managers and staff complete the training, and that process wasn't necessarily in place before.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

That's your time, Mr. McCauley.

We're now turning to Mr. Sidhu.

You have the floor for six minutes.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our witnesses for taking the time to join us here on this rainy Monday morning in Ottawa.

I have a quick question for the Canadian Transportation Agency.

Reading the news, we often see reports about wheelchairs or other mobility devices being damaged by airlines when they're in transit. I want to know what the obligations of airlines are when it comes to preventing this type of damage or providing compensation when it does occur.

How is this enforced?

[France Pégeot]

Good morning.

Essentially, the obligation is for the providers of transportation services to ensure the mobility aids do not get damaged. If they do, it's up to them to compensate and make sure that whatever costs are incurred are being reimbursed to the person who is the user of the mobility aid. This is essentially what the regulation says.

What we do, first of all, is to encourage people to make complaints to us. Also, when we hear about issues—whether it be through the media or when somebody brings a situation to our attention—we immediately send one of our staff to investigate the incident and make sure the regulation has been followed. Some of the obligations are with respect to the training that people handling the mobility aids must follow.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you for that.

The Minister of Transport recently announced additional funding for the Canadian Transportation Agency, to increase its complaint processing and regulatory enforcement capacity.

The question is, are some of these funds going to be allocated towards improving monitoring and enforcement activities related to accessible transportation?

[France Pégeot]

Yes. The vast majority of the funding is for air passenger protection complaints, because this is where we have a very important backlog, as I'm sure all members of the committee know. With respect to enforcement, some of the resources will be dedicated to increasing our enforcement capacity for accessibility.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you. I'm now going to turn to Via Rail Canada.

I want to know more about fleet transition to enable better access...to the needs of Canadians with disabilities. Is the fleet evolving? Could you shed a little more light on that?

[Marie-Claude Cardin]

Absolutely.

As I mentioned in my opening remarks, we are in the process of deploying our new trains, which will serve the Quebec-Windsor corridor. They are fully accessible, with larger washrooms, slightly wider halls and braille signage on the seats. All those improvements are the product of our consultations with members of the disability community.

Of course, people with mobility issues can still travel on our current fleet in the rest of the country. Our on‑board personnel has been trained to ensure that people are able to board the train and move about while on board with reasonable ease.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you for that.

In terms of fleets and consultations—you mentioned that there's some consultation going on—are we looking at other countries to see what they're doing? Are we looking at other companies around the world that are seen as leaders in terms of fleet management and making sure that those with disabilities can access their services?

[Marie-Claude Cardin]

That's a very good question. I'm going to ask Ms. Langlois to answer that.

[Catherine Langlois, Senior Advisor, Universal Accessibility, VIA Rail Canada Inc.]

If it's okay, I'm going to answer in French.

Via Rail is a member of the International Union of Railways, which has a special committee on accessibility. We are on the committee, along with all of our European industry partners, as well as Amtrak, in the U.S. We share best practices in accessibility, including how to consult with persons with disabilities, with a view to improving our services.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you for that answer. It's very inspiring to know that we are looking at other companies and learning from countries around the world in terms of giving better access to those with disabilities.

Mr. Chair, I don't have any further questions. Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

You're very welcome.

Thank you.

Go ahead, Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné. You have six minutes.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Langlois, I just want to make a quick point. You never have to ask permission to answer a question in French. People don't ask us, as francophones, for permission to answer in English. Thank you very much for answering in French.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

That is exactly right.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

I'd like to thank all the witnesses for being with us. We are glad to be studying such an important issue.

We are examining the situation in relation to persons with disabilities, but I think that, in this case, it's important to consider inclusiveness on a broader level. Consider, for instance, the ability to be served in your own language or the various accessibility challenges families face. I'm in the second category. Travelling with a stroller is anything but easy, especially when Air Canada damages it one out of two trips. It's happened to me, and Air Canada doesn't reimburse you. There's an issue worthy of an in‑depth study.

Ms. Pégeot, I'd like to ask you a very simple question about something you said in your opening remarks that caught my attention. You talked about competition in the transportation sector. Do you think there's real competition in air transportation right now?

[France Pégeot]

That's not a question for me to answer. I was basically referring to the national transportation policy, from which our activities and mandate flow.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Shouldn't you be able to answer a question on something that's in your policy?

[France Pégeot]

We are actually an economic regulator. The rail sector has two main transportation service providers, and the air sector has a few carriers. To protect consumers in the rail industry, we ensure that a mechanism is in place to settle disputes between railway users and the two companies themselves.

An organization like ours helps to bring balance to the market, which is made up of service providers, railway users and other consumers, as well as governments. Our job is to ensure that the market operates as smoothly as possible.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Do you think the market is operating smoothly right now?

[France Pégeot]

Forgive me, but I don't think that's for me to say. What we try to do is make sure that the market operates as smoothly as possible under the legislation we are responsible for enforcing.