Public Accounts Committee on June 8th, 2023

[Edward Johnson]

I haven't really changed my view. I don't believe that sort of inclusion would be constructive or necessary. As I said in my opening comments, I have promoted the idea of an independent outside review of the donation. We're talking here of $140,000 in a foundation whose current capital is over $145 million. I don't believe it would be constructive or necessary.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

In the sense that I believe it's necessary and that I believe it's important, perceptions are often as damaging as the truth. In fact, our democracy is something that oftentimes deals with opinion and perception together.

As responsible legislators, as responsible leaders in our community and as folks who want to attempt to uphold the most sacred practices of our institutions, it's to that effect that I believe a public inquiry is necessary. It's beyond the facts of making your foundation guilty or not. It's just the fact that it's a public concern now and weighs into the public consciousness as to the credibility of our democracy. Wouldn't you agree?

[Edward Johnson]

No, I'm sorry. I don't believe there's a lack of transparency on our part in any way. We've been quite transparent at the foundation about this donation and about the circumstances surrounding it. We've returned the donation. What's left to inquire?

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

I think the important piece—

[Edward Johnson]

If I may, I think what we should do that would be constructive would be an independent outside review of the circumstances—of all the circumstances, as I said in my note here.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

What I did appreciate from your work thus far in order to try to clear the name of the foundation was the fact that you did ask the Auditor General to look into an investigation. In some ways, I do recognize that there has been some action, but in your contemplation of requesting that of the Auditor General, there has to be some admission that there is something of perception that is wrong.

[Edward Johnson]

There were allegations—

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Exactly...perceptions.

[Edward Johnson]

—that were very unfair.

I must say, as I've said over and over again, this is very unfair. There was a donation and the receipt of a donation in 2016, negotiated in 2014 and 2015, received in 2016 and 2017—

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Mr. Johnson, I'm sorry. I just want to get back to the important piece of my question related to your request to the Auditor General and why you felt it was important to send that letter.

[Edward Johnson]

Well, because there was a perception.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Exactly, so—

[Edward Johnson]

There was an argument. There were allegations—quite unfair allegations.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Yes, you've said that. I've heard that.

Would you agree, however, that...? We received the Auditor General in this committee to ask her the question of whether or not this would take place, whether or not she would investigate. At that time, she told us that it was not within her parliamentary power, so of course it was my motion at that time, which I thought was incumbent upon this committee, to look at other means to do it. The CRA, for example is one of those arms. It is independent. It has the power to look at and take on the kind of information related to this.

Would you agree that the CRA may be an important aspect of this investigation?

[Edward Johnson]

It would be up to them, up to the CRA, if it wanted to do that, but if I could finish my thought—

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Would you consent to that—

[Edward Johnson]

I'm sorry?

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Would you consent to the CRA?

[Edward Johnson]

Of course. If the CRA comes calling, any taxpayer pays attention.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Has the CRA contacted the organization?

[Edward Johnson]

I will say, though, that we've endeavoured to be compliant in all respects of the Income Tax Act and our obligations to the CRA.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Of course, I'm not making that allegation. I'm making the comment of—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I'm afraid that is your time, Mr. Desjarlais.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

We'll turn now to the start of our second round and of course each round has six questioners.

Mr. Brock, you have the floor again, for five minutes.