Public Accounts Committee on Feb. 13th, 2024

[Erin O'Gorman]

The information in terms of bonuses and performance pay is posted on the website. I will not give specific individuals' remuneration information.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Why?

[Erin O'Gorman]

It's covered by the Privacy Act. That's their personal information.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Yes, Mr. Nater.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

As the grand inquest of the nation, this committee is entitled to information and to call for papers and documents. It is incumbent upon Ms. O'Gorman, on penalty of contempt of Parliament, to respond to the questions of this committee—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

That actually is not a point of order.

Ms. O'Gorman, I will just remind you that in fact Parliament supersedes in its request any privacy laws that you might feel you're subject to. If papers are asked for, or if information is requested, you should be aware of Parliament's right to ask for, request and receive such documents.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

How much time do I have left?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

You have three minutes left.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Ms. O'Gorman, at your agency, which is at the centre of this scandal and which, in my opinion, has brought the entire public service under disrepute, how many executives—and how much money—were bonused during the rollout of this particular app?

[Erin O'Gorman]

I don't have that information with me.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Will you provide that to us?

[Erin O'Gorman]

I take note of the request.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

The answer is probably yes, that some executives were bonused and received commission for their work.

[Erin O'Gorman]

With regard to the number of people who received bonuses at the CBSA during the pandemic, that information is available online.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

So, the answer is yes, executives received bonuses, and you'll tell us exactly who and how much.

[Erin O'Gorman]

I take note of the question.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Hannoush and Ms. Després, I understand that you interviewed Cameron MacDonald, as well as Antonio Utano. They furnished you with the details regarding that ATIP request. To answer the question of Ms. Hogan as to who that person was who made that request.... You knew, as supplied by Mr. Utano and Mr. MacDonald, that this person was Minh Doan.

Did you share the details of the identity of that person with Ms. Hogan?

[Sami Hannoush, Principal, Office of the Auditor General]

Yes. We did meet with Mr. MacDonald. We did take into consideration the materials that were provided to us as part of that conversation. Subsequently, as Ms. Hogan has indicated, we did discuss that specific document that you referenced earlier in the meeting.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Did you specifically inform Ms. Hogan that the person who was identified as “I take responsibility or my office” was Minh Doan, yes or no, sir?

[Karen Hogan]

Sami and I talked about this. We wondered whether it was Ms. Belanger or whether it was Mr. Doan. It was unclear from the information.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Did you seek clarification from the CBSA?

[Karen Hogan]

I'll have to ask Sami if he sought clarity.

[Sami Hannoush]

We did not, no.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you.

I'll cede to Mr. McCauley.