Evidence of meeting #25 for Public Accounts in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cra.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

François-Philippe Champagne  Minister of Finance and National Revenue
Serjak  Assistant Commissioner, Assessment, Benefit, and Service Branch, Canada Revenue Agency

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative John Williamson

Good afternoon everyone.

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 25 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Accounts.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the Standing Orders. Members are all here in person, and no one is using the Zoom application.

I'd like to remind participants of the following points.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. All comments should be addressed through the chair.

Members, if there is any kind of debate or interaction outside of regular questions, please raise your hand if you wish to speak, whether participating in the room or remotely on Zoom. The clerk and I will manage a speaking order as best we can.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(g) and the motion passed by the committee on Tuesday, October 21 2025, the committee resumes consideration of the report on the Canada Revenue Agency contract centres, of the 2025 fall reports of the Auditor General of Canada.

As a housekeeping note, for those who aren't aware, Monday's meeting was cancelled suddenly to prioritize a room allocation for the finance committee's study of Bill C-15. I wanted to let you know why that happened. Those witnesses will be rescheduled for later next month or April. Bill C-15, of course, is the budget implementation act, so if you have any questions, our witness today can help answer them.

Speaking of which, I'll turn now to our two witnesses.

Appearing is the Honourable François-Philippe Champagne, Minister of Finance and National Revenue.

Thank you for coming in to see us today, Minister.

From the Canada Revenue Agency, we have Melanie Serjak, assistant commissioner, assessment, benefit and service branch.

You are no stranger to the committee. Thank you for accompanying the minister. We're going to see how well he knows his stuff. If he doesn't, that's why you're here, I'm sure.

Minister Champagne, you have five minutes for an opening statement, if you'd like. The floor is yours.

February 25th, 2026 / 4:10 p.m.

Saint-Maurice—Champlain Québec

Liberal

François-Philippe Champagne LiberalMinister of Finance and National Revenue

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Dear colleagues, it is a privilege to be here with you today. This is my first appearance before the Standing Committee on Public Affairs.

I would like to thank Ms. Serjak for the exceptional work she's done, and all the Canada Revenue Agency employees serving Canadians.

Mr. Chair, committee members, thank you for the invitation.

I am pleased to have the opportunity to appear before the committee today to speak to the situation at the Canada Revenue Agency.

You will remember that on September 2, Secretary of State Wayne Long and I directed the Canada Revenue Agency to immediately implement a 100-day service improvement plan. The goal was clear: restore public trust, strengthen services, improve access and reduce delays that burden taxpayers.

As we've indicated when we first proposed to appear before the committee to discuss these issues, Canadians expect and deserve reliable and timely services from the agency. Despite the dedication of CRA employees, it has become increasingly clear that the agency is currently struggling to meet this standard. It is with this in mind that we asked for improvements, and that I asked the agency's board of directors president to take appropriate action.

While there is still a lot of work to be done—as we must always show humility before Canadians—I am pleased to say today that the 100-day plan, carried out from September 2 to December 11, 2025, has delivered tangible results for those dealing with the agency.

The agency mobilized with exceptional rigour, and I thank the agency for its professionalism. I also thank the agency for its remarkable innovation, collaboration and speed of execution.

The numbers speak for themselves.

First, the agency doubled its capacity to answer calls. To achieve this, it increased the number of contact centre service representatives from 1,500 to 2,750.

Second, it exceeded its target by raising the response rate for unique callers from 35% at the beginning of July to more than 70% at the beginning of September.

Third, the agency accelerated the processing of backlogged files, notably through the automation of its operational processes and the strategic redeployment of its teams. This made it possible to process an additional 115,000 T1 adjustment requests compared to the same period last year.

As you can see, tangible measures were put in place to improve service.

One of the most significant components of the 100-day plan is the accelerated rollout of digital services, because that's the way we can improve services and offer better and more timely services to Canadians. We are moving away from a model where the phone line is the only lifeline to a more secure and 24-7 ecosystem. These services provide taxpayers with a range of modern, secure and accessible tools that promote self-service and free up phone lines for complex cases requiring human expertise, and we're benchmarking with the best practices of other tax agencies around the world.

We get more than 32 million calls per year. I need to pause for a second for those watching at home and members of this committee. That is why I always approach this with humility. Answering 32 million calls a year is a tall order, with an average of 300,000 calls each day during the tax season. I think we all have to say thank you to those on the front line, because they're doing their very best to serve Canadians. Obviously there are system issues, there's some complexity in the tax code and there are some legacy systems we have, and we're trying to tackle all of that at the same time to give them the best possible tools.

I spent half a day in one of the call centres with those people, listening to calls side by side with them, and they're doing their very best. We should, as parliamentarians, be there to support them.

The math is simple. We must promote self-service to keep the lines open for those who truly need human expertise and assistance. Knowing when to call and when to use online tools is therefore essential to improving everyone's experience.

Among the new digital options, the agency now offers Canadians a redesigned phone menu that automatically routes calls to the appropriate experts within the agency. The document verification service, which I think Mr. Stevenson would be familiar with, speeds up account registration by using AI, such as facial recognition, along with strong security measures. There, again, we're benchmarking with the banking industry, for which security is essential. These innovations are expected to significantly reduce the hundreds of thousands of annual calls related to account lockouts.

To further reinforce these efforts, a new self-service credential recovery feature now allows users who have forgotten their sign-in information to regain access to their accounts independently. Also, our priority callback system is something I'm told Canadians really appreciate. Instead of spending time online, they get a callback. That has shown to be a real success.

Between September and December 2025, our priority web-based call service assisted 79,766 Canadians, handling more than 5,000 calls per week. This included a specialized pilot we launched with respect to disability tax credit inquiries, which successfully managed around 4,000 requests, ensuring that taxpayers were contacted within two business days.

The way the agency met the challenge of the 100-day plan underscores an essential truth powered by a technologically enabled workforce. That's what we need to do, and that's why we're trying to give them more tools in their tool boxes to serve Canadians.

Let's be clear: The agency is a world-class tax and benefit administration. It remains committed to providing Canadians with the benefits they are entitled to and making sure that Canada's tax service is strong, modern and obviously responsive to the evolving needs of Canadians.

The improvements I have outlined represent only a portion of the measures the agency implemented under the 100-day plan. Since then, many additional initiatives have been deployed, including those aimed at preparing for the current tax-filing season.

Thank you for inviting me. I will be happy to answer my colleagues' questions.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative John Williamson

Thank you, minister.

We'll begin with Mr. Deltell. You have the floor for six minutes.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent—Akiawenhrahk, QC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, colleagues. Welcome to the committee.

Minister, welcome.

Ms. Serjak, thank you very much for the work you do for Canadians at the Canada Revenue Agency. We'll have an opportunity to get to the bottom of things today.

Minister, you talked about 100 days. I, for one, am going to talk to you about 10 years. You've been a member of Parliament for 10 years, and minister for almost all that time. For 10 years, taxpayers-focused services have dramatically declined. When people make a mistake, they pay. When people are late, they pay. However, for 10 years, your government let the situation at the Canada Revenue Agency horrendously deteriorate. What did that lead to? The agency answered 18% of calls within the set standards, but worse than that, 83% of the information given was wrong.

Minister, I've talked to some of my constituents. Hundreds of citizens wrote to me saying they wanted reasonable response times, clear answers and thoughtful support, because they haven't had that for 10 years.

Why has it taken you 10 years to act, with your 100-day plan, while you let the situation deteriorate?

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

Let me start by thanking you, Mr. Deltell. I take note of your constituents' comments.

You know, we're here to serve Canadians and to make a difference. As you pointed out, I haven't been Minister of National Revenue for very long. When I saw the situation, and newspapers have reported on it as well, and saw that constituents both in your riding and in my riding were asking us to change course, that's exactly why I asked for a 100‑day plan.

As far as what the agency's done, I'd be happy to go into the details. We've taken steps, for example, to introduce more technology to help our representatives. Regarding the percentage of calls the agency answers, we're back to a much more sustainable and reasonable rate. If you ask me whether we've done well, I'll tell you that some of the work has been done. Is there more to be done? Absolutely. No one from the agency or any minister is going to come here and tell you that we've reached our objective.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent—Akiawenhrahk, QC

I understand.

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

However, we do this work seriously, with empathy and humility.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent—Akiawenhrahk, QC

However, for 10 years, nothing was done.

I understand that one of your predecessors held sway in this position for seven years, was fired from cabinet by then Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and was fired from the House of Commons by the constituents of Gaspésie. That's fine, but it's still your government that let the situation deteriorate, which led to hundreds of citizens being outraged at the Canada Revenue Agency. At the very least, people expect the information they're given to be the right information.

Why did it take you 10 years? Who's responsible for that? Who paid for this lack of responsibility towards Canadians?

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

As I said, we have to be humble in our approach. You're referring to the response rate, but we have to put that in perspective. I was told it's based on a sample of 50 calls, while the agency receives 32 millions calls a year. I can tell you that when—

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent—Akiawenhrahk, QC

Are you questioning the Auditor General's findings?

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

No, I just want to—

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent—Akiawenhrahk, QC

That's exactly what you just said.

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

No. I'm talking about their methodology. They looked at 50 calls out of 32 million.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent—Akiawenhrahk, QC

Don't you think that's telling?

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

I think Canadians can work things out.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent—Akiawenhrahk, QC

Oh, okay. So what the Office of the Auditor General did doesn't mean anything.

Why then did you go ahead with your 100-day plan?

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

Let me just respond. That’s 50 calls out of 32 million. People at home can do the math.

Let’s take a look at what we at the agency have done: based on the 100,000 calls we evaluated, our success rate is 90%.

Obviously, I respect the Auditor General’s work. When she uses the same methodology as ours, we arrive at the same figures.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent—Akiawenhrahk, QC

It is truly unfortunate to see a serious Minister of Finance cast doubt on the audit conducted by the Auditor General. I find it very disappointing to see you act this way, Minister.

Does your department focus more on the big fish or on cases involving ordinary citizens?

Let me explain. Our citizens talk to us about this a lot. They wonder why someone who is $200 or $300 short will be harassed by the Canada Revenue Agency, while the entrepreneur, company or millionaire who can afford to hire lawyers and tax specialists will be able to reach an agreement with the agency and not pay what is owed.

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

Everyone must pay their fair share of taxes.

Allow me to return to your previous statement. I respect the work of the Auditor General; I was simply explaining the methodology to you. What I am saying is that if you use the same methodology, you will arrive at roughly the same result. That is all I am saying. The samples are different, but I invite you to check this with the Auditor General. We did so, and when we used the same methodology, we arrived at the same figures.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent—Akiawenhrahk, QC

Ah, I see.

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

Since the methodology is different, we arrive at different figures, but what I told you first—

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent—Akiawenhrahk, QC

So, since you are able to go into the results in such depth, can you tell us how many citizens have been misled by bad information and how much money is owed to them or has not been paid?

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

What I said is that when you use the methodology adopted by the agency and the Auditor General, you end up…. Of course, if you have two different methodologies, you get different results.

Basically, I thank the Auditor General for her report, because it shed light on the situation. Based on that, I took action. I am telling you this because, ultimately, I am here to testify about what I have done. So, I asked the agency to develop a 100-day plan specifically to improve the quality of services—

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent—Akiawenhrahk, QC

Whom did you ask?

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

—and the technology, to ensure that we have better processes.

Mr. Deltell, I invite you to spend a day with me at the agency, with the people there. You will see that these are people who are trying to serve the public in the best way possible, but we have to give them the tools to do so, and that is what we are doing.