Public Accounts Committee on Sept. 24th, 2026

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Thank you for your service.

Do you enjoy police work or administration more?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

You forgot to include politics in that.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Commr Michael Duheme]

You realize as you move up in ranks that there's an administrative portion. I understand some of the administrative burden that it's putting on the front line, in which people are spending more time in the office than on the road.

We're hoping that with our data plan going forward, we can minimize that. It is a complaint I hear when I travel across the country. It's about how long it sometimes takes for our frontline people to fill out certain forms, and while they're filling out the forms, they're not on the roads patrolling them.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Are you proud of this audit report?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

Am I proud? I'd be crazy to say “proud”, but not surprised.

Not surprised, but we knew there were issues from 2018. When you look at the numbers before COVID and after COVID, there's a significant difference. I've said this. I truly believe that the organization relied on people wanting to join the RCMP pre-COVID, and when COVID hit, with different career aspirations, we saw a dip. I don't think we came out of the gates fast enough.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Okay. I can appreciate that answer.

I'm looking at the information. It was 2018 for the last audit, and then in 2023 you had that internal report, which is almost mirrored again in the Auditor General's report. There have been three years in which improvement could have been possible, but it didn't happen.

It looks to me as though there's an administrative failure. One of the really telling comments in the report is the Auditor General's noting that you really had no idea of how many new individuals, new officers, you needed to hire. This, to me, was a very disappointing read that you didn't know. To me, it speaks to administration and not enough emphasis put on the administration of the force.

You indicated that you agreed with the Auditor General's recommendations. Do you also agree with her observations?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

For the most part, as I said earlier, I agree with all the recommendations that were brought forward. The only difference is when it comes to vacancies and the total capacity of Depot, but I accept the general recommendations.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

We live in a very instant society and world, in which we have credit cards, we have pre-approved credit and we have microwaves. However, people have to wait 330 days to find out if their application has been accepted. Do you not find it a bit odd that the process takes this long?

Can you tell me, is it because of budget constraints?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

It has nothing to do with budget constraints. It has to do with leadership. It has to do with people being comfortable doing things a certain way.

That's why, since I've been in the chair, as of 2023, we've looked at the whole recruiting process from the entry point to Depot. We scaled it back down. Not seeing a significant improvement in it, this is why we.... This is a very centralized process, which the commanding officers across the country have little involvement in. This is why we started Project Red Serge out of British Columbia and the Yukon.

We're streamlining the process. We're going to get this down to six months, 180 days, which is acceptable for our standards, and then look at the model we have, because the centralized model right now is a single point of failure. It's a choke point right at the central point. If that had to break, the whole process would break, so we're looking at getting the commanding officers more involved in the whole recruiting process.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

One of the observations of the AG was that the diversity priorities set by the department or by the government created a problem in recruitment. Would you agree with this?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

When we go through the recruiting process, we don't look at the individual, the gender and whatnot. We want to get the right people in the door to do the work.

We have statistics when it comes to gender diversity and whatnot. The last numbers I saw.... When you look at women versus men, women, I think, are at 21% or 22%. It was close to there.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

You wouldn't agree with her conclusion, then, that it's created a problem and that you've moved away from this.

[Commr Michael Duheme]

I'm not aware of whether it created a problem.

Karen and her team did the work. They did fantastic work. However, I'm not aware that there were any holdbacks or delays because of the priorities. We understand the priorities. We want to ensure that we police communities and that the police in communities are reflective of the community they serve.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

The report also says the classrooms were not filled to capacity. In fact, 16% of attendees in those classes weren't able to complete the course because there weren't enough courses offered in a timely manner.

Is this because of leadership at Depot or is it because of other reasons?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

The main reason there are vacancies in some of the classrooms is our inability to fill the troops up to 32 cadets per troop.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you. That is the time.

Mr. Gobeil, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Daniel Gobeil, Liberal, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is my first meeting. I'm pleased to join the Standing Committee on Public Accounts. This is my first week on the Hill.

Thank you to all the witnesses for their various reports.

Mr. Duheme, I would like to hear from you again. My colleague who spoke before me touched on the diversity targets for women, indigenous people and so on. I'd like you to tell us again about the targets set out in your recruitment strategy.

You mentioned 350 new hires this year. Do these targets fall within the rates you were hoping to achieve to bring diversity to the communities?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

The target of 350 is for federal policing. The mandate is a bit different from that of the uniformed police in communities. However, I'm a firm believer in diversity within the organization. The organization is stronger when there's a certain diversity, but also when there's diversity at the executive table, or when any executive in the organization represents that diversity.

[Daniel Gobeil, Liberal, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Okay.

Can this diversity give you opportunities to fill vacant positions in certain regions of Canada or in various locations?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

I wouldn't limit myself to the issue of diversity. The challenge we face—and are currently addressing—is really the journey, from start to finish, of someone who offers their services to the organization. In short, it comes down to that. It's about improving the entry point because we're losing too many people at depot. The attrition rate at depot varies between 15% and 20%.

Imagine the following: There's a capacity for 1,200 cadets to graduate in a year. If we take 15% to 20% of that away, that's money out the window because we didn't do a good job from the outset of identifying the right people, those we believe have the right skills and core values needed to become police officers.

[Daniel Gobeil, Liberal, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you very much.

There was talk about surveillance earlier. You mentioned drones. How long have new technologies been used at the border to support the RCMP's work?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

The government made an initial investment of $660 million for the borders a long time ago. That immediately enabled us to mobilize helicopters, improve the drone program that we have within the organization and deploy additional staff and technology.

We have also been able to deploy technology to ensure compatibility with our neighbours to the south, the U.S. Border Patrol, with whom we have an excellent relationship. We work together with that organization across the country.

[Daniel Gobeil, Liberal, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Okay. I would like to make one last comment to congratulate you. We were talking about 20,000 hiring requests. Yes, we think there's room for improvement in terms of timelines, but when I hear about six-month timelines and a four-month target, I think there's still important work being done. We want this to continue over the coming years with your target and your plan, which is still very ambitious.

That will be all from me today. Thank you.

[Commr Michael Duheme]

Mr. Chair, I would like to thank the member for his comments.

I can say that the organization, the senior executive committee of the RCMP, is well aware. Commanding officers in each division know that the priority is recruitment. If we don't hire the right people, if we can't attract the right people to the organization, we're working for nothing.

I can also tell you that I have been a member of the organization's executive committee for at least 15 years, and this is the first time I have been excited about recruitment, because a process is being changed, finally, and we're seeing concrete results in terms of progress on the changes.