Public Accounts Committee on Sept. 24th, 2026

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Good morning, everyone. I call this meeting to order.

I would like to welcome you to meeting number 47 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Accounts.

Since it has been three months since I last spoke French, I hope it goes fairly well.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(g), the committee is beginning its review of the 2026 spring reports of the Auditor General of Canada, entitled “Recruiting for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police”.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the Standing Orders, although I believe all members and witnesses are in the room.

There are some standard notes that I'll go through at the top of this meeting. Before we continue, I'd ask all in-person participants to consult the guidelines written on the audio cards on the table. These measures are in place to help prevent audio and feedback incidents and to protect the health and safety of all participants, particularly our interpreters. You'll also notice a QR code on the card that links to a short awareness video for your interest.

I'd like to make a few comments for the benefit of witnesses and members. Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those participating via video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mic, and please mute yourself when you're not speaking.

I remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair, although I recognize that during the question and answer session with the witnesses, this is less necessary. It's a formality, but I prefer the interaction between witnesses and members.

For members in the room, if you wish to speak—and this has more to do with a point of order—please raise your hand. If you feel I've missed you and you want to raise a point of order, say into the microphone, “Point of order.” For members on Zoom, please use the “raise hand” function. The clerk and I will manage the speaking order as best we can. We appreciate your patience and understanding in this regard.

Before we begin, I'd like to welcome all the new members of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts. We have a number of members who are joining us. It is always nice to refresh the roster.

Before I go any further, I have some business to attend to, so I'm going to turn things over to our clerk for the election of the second vice-chair. I also want to welcome our clerk. We've already been working together for a couple of weeks, and it's been a pleasure. I'm sure that will continue, and I'm also sure that all members will find that as well.

Over to you, Clerk.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Aimée Belmore]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Pursuant to Standing Order 106(2), the second vice-chair must be a member of an opposition party other than the official opposition.

I am now prepared to receive motions for the second vice-chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

We will proceed with our North Korean-style election.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Go ahead.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

It's a pleasure to be on this committee. Welcome to the clerk.

I'd like to nominate our friend from the Bloc, Mr. Blanchette-Joncas.

[The Clerk]

Mr. Hallan moves that Mr. Blanchette‑Joncas be elected as second vice-chair of the committee.

Are there any further motions?

It does not appear so.

Is it the pleasure of the committee to adopt the motion?

(Motion agreed to)

[The Clerk]

I declare the motion carried and Mr. Blanchette‑Joncas duly elected as second vice-chair of the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much, and I'd like to welcome everyone once again.

I have a couple of notes for the new members. As the chairman, I've developed a habit that I think has been met with agreement on both sides.

Everyone, when it's your turn, you're restricted to a certain time. I allow members to ask questions to the end of that time, at which point, I allow witnesses to provide an answer. I ask that members do not interrupt the answer once your time has expired. If you do, I then cease the answer and move on.

This is designed as the committee's approach in wanting to get answers from our expert witnesses. It has worked for the last couple of years, and it is my intention.... I wanted to let new members know.

Watch your time. You want to wrap up if you're hitting that two-and-a-half-minute, five-minute or six-minute mark. Just be aware that the witnesses will be given the opportunity to answer. This habit has reduced any kind of showboating whereby we don't give witnesses a chance to answer. More importantly, it's provided answers to questions when we have many of them. I hope this will continue to meet with everyone's agreement.

I'd now like to welcome and introduce our witnesses. Thank you all for being here.

From the Office of the Auditor General, we have Karen Hogan, the Auditor General of Canada. We have Sami Hannoush, principal. We also have Maria Pooley. It's nice to see you again.

From the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, we have Michael Duheme, commissioner. Thank you for coming back. It's good to see you again, sir.

We also have Adam Palmer, assistant commissioner of national recruitment transformation, in from B.C. It's nice to see you as well, Mr. Palmer.

We're going to have opening statements from both Ms. Hogan and Mr. Duheme. You will have five minutes each.

Ms. Hogan, you have the floor, please.

[Karen Hogan, Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the opportunity to appear before the committee today to discuss our report, “Recruiting for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police”, which was tabled in March.

I'd like to begin by recognizing that we are gathered on the traditional unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

With me today are Sami Hannoush, the principal who was responsible for the audit, and Maria Pooley, the director who led the audit team.

The audit found that although the RCMP identified recruitment as a top priority in 2018, it did not know how many police officers it needed to fully staff the force. The RCMP set recruitment targets that fell well short of its staffing needs and did not recruit as many officers as planned. Our analysis of RCMP data found that the shortage had gotten worse since 2023, with at least 3,400 additional police officers needed as of September 2025.

The RCMP also missed its target processing time for 97% of employment applications, making it harder to fill training classes with enough cadets. Successful applications took an average of 330 days to process, and processing times got longer over the audit period. Over the 30 months we examined, the RCMP filled only 18% of its cadet training classes to the maximum capacity of 32 cadets each. In other words, the RCMP sent only 2,400 cadets to Depot for training when there were almost 3,000 spots. This meant that fewer cadets entered training than planned, limiting the RCMP's ability to reduce its staffing shortages.

Shortages of frontline RCMP officers were widespread across Canada. As of September 2025, nine of the 11 provinces and territories where the RCMP provides frontline services had vacancy rates above the force's critical threshold of 7%.

This shortage also limited the number of experienced front line officers that the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, or RCMP, could transfer to fill vacancies elsewhere in the organization.

In 2023, the RCMP introduced the flexible posting plan, which allowed new officers to choose the province or territory of their first assignment. The plan succeeded in attracting thousands more applicants than anticipated. However, the approach also increased chronic vacancies in some areas. In July 2025, the RCMP began phasing out the plan and returned to assigning new officers according to operational needs. Given the high number of vacancies, it will take many years to fully reverse the effects of the temporary approach.

These high vacancy rates pose a clear risk to the RCMP's ability to maintain operational capacity and deliver effective policing services in all parts of the organization.

Chronic shortages also increase the risk of police officer absences and burnout, which could make it more challenging for the RCMP to prevent and investigate crime, maintain peace and order and contribute to national security.

Given the significant concerns raised by this audit and because a year has passed since we completed our work, the RCMP is best positioned to answer the committee's questions on its current staffing needs, application processing times and any critical shortages in front line policing.

This concludes my opening remarks. We would be pleased to answer any questions the committee may have.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much, Ms. Hogan.

Commissioner, you have the floor for about five minutes. I won't cut you off if you run a little over. The floor is yours, please.

[Commissioner Michael Duheme, Commissioner, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, Mr. Chair, members of the committee. Thank you for inviting me to appear before you to discuss the Auditor General's report on recruiting for the RCMP.

With me today is assistant commissioner, Adam Palmer, who is responsible for national recruitment transformation.

The RCMP accepts the recommendations in the Auditor General's report, and we appreciate the work of the Auditor General and her team.

The report identifies challenges with how the RCMP manages its workforce and staffing. Organizationally, our issues are historical, centred on how we recruit and train cadets, manage vacancies and measure results. I would like to assure the chair, committee members and Auditor General that I take these findings seriously and remain committed to change.

Our management action plan has been shared with the Office of the Auditor General and this committee. Today, the assistant commissioner, Adam Palmer, and I are here to provide an update on efforts and to answer your questions.

Recruitment, training capacity, workforce planning, vacancy reduction and posting decisions are closely connected and must be addressed together. The RCMP is pursuing a modern approach to better understand staffing needs, recruit and train effectively and manage future staffing risks.

This initiative is important as the RCMP works to strengthen its federal policing mandate. The government has invested in adding 1,000 new federal policing positions to help the RCMP address threats to national security, transnational organized crime, and border and financial crime.

Following an external review and an internal report on recruitment practices across Five Eyes countries, we are making the application process more personal, flexible and efficient, while maintaining core assessment requirements.

In March 2026, the RCMP released its organization-wide national recruiting strategy to improve screening, modernize online tools, strengthen outreach and increase workforce diversity. With government support, the RCMP has increased the cadet recruit allowance to help address financial barriers for recruits.

Project Red Serge is testing a direct, applicant-focused model in B.C. and Yukon. Recruiters have a greater involvement with applicants, key screening steps occur earlier and assessment pathways are managed flexibly. The redesigned process enables recruiters to identify and defer non-qualified or non-competitive applicants earlier in the process, focusing resources and attention on high-potential candidates who are more likely to progress. The early results are encouraging, and we are assessing long-term and nationwide potential.

The RCMP is making it easier for qualified, experienced candidates to join through different pathways. We are establishing national standards for recruiting police officers from other jurisdictions and piloting a pathway for experienced peace officers.

Increasing the diversity of our workforce remains one of our recruitment goals. The RCMP works with indigenous organizations and under-represented communities, while pre-cadet programs provide an introduction to police work and prepare participants for the training offered at Depot Division.

The RCMP is developing a first nations, Inuit and Métis recruitment strategy for police officers and public service employees, informed by engagement with indigenous employees, regional representatives and national indigenous organizations.

We are developing a workforce planning model to provide enterprise-wide demand information and real-time data on needs by region and function, including current and projected frontline vacancies to be implemented this fiscal year.

The management action plan provides for evidence-based vacancy targets, timelines and regular reporting.

The RCMP is reviewing how it assesses recruitment, workforce capacity and long-term sustainability. We will track application processing times, the rates at which cadets are admitted to a detachment and promoted to constable, vacancy rates, workforce diversity indicators and progress made toward operational staffing needs.

We will modernize recruit training and increase capacity at our training academy, Depot. We are currently conducting an extensive review of Depot. This is a holistic review of the curriculum, the culture, the leadership and the overall environment in which our cadets are trained.

Mr. Chair, while the work ahead is substantial, I assure you that we are committed and are making good progress. My objective is to ensure that the RCMP has the right people, skills and capacity required to meet operational demands across its policing responsibilities and to deliver the services Canadians expect.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today.

Mr. Palmer and I would be pleased to answer any questions the committee may have.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you.

I'll now begin our first round, which will consist of three members for six minutes each.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I'm sorry, Chair. [Inaudible—Editor]

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Is the interpretation working in English?

Okay.

If we can put this on hold, I need to resolve this to ensure that all members are able to participate.

Mr. Blanchette‑Joncas, do you have your earpiece?

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Rimouski-Neigette—Mitis—Matapédia—Les Basques, BQ]

Mr. Chair, the problem is that the terminals disconnect after a few seconds. It's the same for me.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Okay. Fine.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Is it the same with you, Kelly?

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Mine is intermittent.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Give me one second. I'm going to consult with the clerk.

I'm going to suspend this meeting.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I'll call this meeting back to order.

Just to recall, Mr. Steinley, had I called on you yet? Were you just about to start? No? Okay. I think I was about to call on you. I'm just going to make sure that no one is having any technical difficulties.

Is everything okay with the sound? I see it is.

Mr. Steinley, welcome to committee. You have six minutes, please, to lead us off. This will begin with three members for six minutes each.

It's over to you, sir.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's a pleasure to be here at public accounts with my colleagues and jumping in for a second.

I have the honour to represent Depot in Regina—Lewvan, and F Division as well. I want to say before we get started that I am proud to represent all the men and women who serve us across the country. Every RCMP officer who goes to every one of your towns and cities goes through Depot, through Regina—Lewvan first, and I'm very proud to represent those men and women.

I have some questions that I want to start off with.

One is something that has been confusing to the public, Commissioner, and this is the fact of the continual repetition of the government—the Liberals—in saying that there are going to be 1,000 new RCMP officers hired. I have some information here. Can you confirm or deny that there will be 1,000 new frontline RCMP officers hired?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

I would like to highlight the fact that the RCMP has three key programs, which are contract policing—that is frontline policing, as most of you know—the federal policing mandate and special police services.

I would say that the focus over the last 30 years has always been on the contract side. Any time there were budget cuts with regard to the RCMP, the government would get 100% of the dollars by cutting into the federal side of things, not just investigations, but the infrastructure support side. I have committed to, with the new investment of $1.8 million, 1,000 new resources, and 750 of those are regular members. I have committed to a three-year plan to make sure that we bring 750 police officers into the federal policing program.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Thank you for that.

How many positions were cut in the RCMP because of direction from the government last year?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

There were none on the federal policing side and none on the contract side.