Public Safety Committee on Nov. 2nd, 2006

[Raymond Chan, Liberal, Richmond, BC]

Right, so the information about long guns is the same.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Mr. Chan, you are way over time already.

Mr. Hawn.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to clarify something before I ask a question about what the minister said today. He didn't say that hundreds of millions would be saved; he said that hundreds of millions had been wasted. He said that 20% of $86 million--which is the potential savings, because it's related to the long gun registry--is a lot more than $2 million, as stated by the Canada Firearms Centre.

I have a question on the RCMP and the budget. I'm a tremendous fan and supporter of what the RCMP has done and continues to do in Canada. The RCMP budget this year is estimated at about $3.3 billion. Is that adequate for your operations?

I know that's kind of a leading question. But more importantly, we're trying to integrate another 1,000 members into the force over a period of time. Everybody obviously wants more money for their operations, but if there are shortfalls--bearing in mind we're trying to integrate 1,000 new members--where are they, and where are the priorities you would start chopping from?

[D/Commr Peter Martin]

Let me answer the first part and then I'll ask Deputy Gauvin if he could add some comments.

The RCMP has been extremely fortunate in the way we've been supported in our programs over the years. We've seen significant growth, but that's also been the result of significant demands that have been placed on the organization. If you ask any organization today if they have enough to do their job, the answer will obviously be no. You can always do more and you can always want more. More is never enough, but we manage effectively. We set our priorities. I think we're using the resources wisely that have been given to us by the government and the Canadian citizens at large.

[Paul Gauvin, Deputy Commissioner, Corporate Management and Comptrollership, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

Over the last eight years the budget for the RCMP has increased from $1.8 billion to $3.3 billion this year in the estimates. We think that $3.3 billion will reach about $3.7 million because we have supplementary estimates (A) and (B). We're also working on our estimates for next year, and we think they will reach close to $4 billion.

As Deputy Martin explained, crime is everywhere and it's getting more sophisticated. But I think the RCMP has been treated quite well in the resources it's been given.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

You don't see any limitations in the resources for bringing in the 1,000 new members.

[D/Commr Paul Gauvin]

We just had a memorandum to cabinet for the federal policing program. In that program we receive about 1,000 person years. Of that, about 700 are members and the rest are support staff. I think the government is still working on others in terms of putting more policemen on the street.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

I'd like to switch gears a little and go back to the CBSA and the arming of CBSA officers. We're talking about arming 4,800 officers. What's the total membership of CBSA operational personnel?

[John Brunet]

We have some people from the CBSA here. I'll ask one of them to come forward to address the question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

I'll invite whoever is here from the CBSA to come to the microphone to try to answer this. Please give your name and title.

[Candace Breakwell, Director, Legislative Affairs and ATIP, Canada Border Services Agency]

My name is Candace Breakwell and I'm the director of legislative affairs at CBSA.

I'm sorry, the question is?

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

We're talking about arming 4,800 CBSA folks. What's the total number of agents at airports or borders?

[Candace Breakwell]

I think it's over 5,000.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

So we are talking about arming virtually 100% of them.

[Candace Breakwell]

Yes, just about. It's a little over 5,000.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

That's good. I may have had a misconception.

Mr. Brunet, we talked about WHTI and cards and so on. Do you have an estimate of what an alternative card might wind up costing the department or an individual?

[John Brunet]

I'm not aware of any estimates. I believe the card would be administered through the passport office or some other facility, as opposed to Public Safety itself, so I'm afraid I can't answer that question.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Mr. Cotler.

[Irwin Cotler, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

This is a question I would have put to the minister, but in his absence, anyone who wishes may answer.

The Office of the Correctional Investigator's latest annual report concluded that the federal prison system has practices that discriminate against aboriginal offenders. For example, it found that the Correctional Service of Canada routinely classifies first nations, Métis, and Inuit inmates as higher security risks than non-native inmates. It also found that aboriginal offenders are released later in their sentences than other inmates and that they are more likely than other offenders to have their conditional release revoked for technical reasons. The report also says that aboriginal inmates often do not receive timely access to rehabilitative programming and services that would help them return to their communities.

Do you accept the correctional investigator's findings? If so, how do you intend to respond to them? More generally, how do you intend to respond to the problem—and it is a more than serious prejudicial issue—of the overrepresentation of aboriginal people in the prison system?

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Yes.

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

I think this is beyond the scope of the people here. You're asking these people to answer questions that are part of government policy. Maybe we should have the minister back. It's unfair to put these people in such a position.

[Irwin Cotler, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Chairman, if you'll notice, I prefaced my remarks by saying that I would have put that question to the minister and that I was prepared to have anyone answer who wished to. This is the statement of the correctional investigator, and his annual report is a matter of public record. We are dealing today with matters that are properly before the committee. This is one of them.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Would you regard this as a policy question, or do you feel that this is something the minister should reply to?