Evidence of meeting #19 for Public Safety and National Security in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was million.
A recording is available from Parliament.
November 2nd, 2006 / 10:05 a.m.
Liberal
Raymond Chan Liberal Richmond, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Martin, to follow up on the line of questioning from Mr. Ménard earlier, when he asked you about the cost of shutting down the long gun registry, your answer is you cannot quantify because it's complicated. Yet for a long time, since the minister appeared before this committee, both to the media and again today in a statement to this committee, he claimed millions of dollars will be saved--hundreds of millions of dollars.
Did you give that number to the minister, or did the minister pull that number out of the air himself?
10:05 a.m.
Deputy Commissioner, National Police Services of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
I cannot speak for the minister, number one. The RCMP took over responsibility for the Canada Firearms Centre on May 17 and we have been working with the ministry from that point.
As far as what was stated and what was discussed around the figures before that date, I'm at a loss to be able to give you reliable information. My reason for not giving you a firm figure today is I can't give you one. I don't want to give you something that may be misleading and not accurate.
10:10 a.m.
Deputy Commissioner, National Police Services of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
I will go back, and I have no problem coming forward with some more refined figures.
10:10 a.m.
Liberal
Raymond Chan Liberal Richmond, BC
The total firearms program is estimated at around $86 million for the year. That includes the handgun registry, which has to be there. It can't be deleted from that system by cancelling the long gun registry. Even with the estimates saying 20% of the activity is associated with long guns, and if you just forget about the cost of the system, which is applicable to both, if you just take 20% off that $86 million, which is the whole firearms program, then you are still talking about less than $20 million.
10:10 a.m.
Deputy Commissioner, National Police Services of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
That's an accurate observation.
10:10 a.m.
Liberal
Raymond Chan Liberal Richmond, BC
Right. So the number that has been floating around for a savings of hundreds of millions of dollars is inaccurate, wouldn't you say?
10:10 a.m.
Deputy Commissioner, National Police Services of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Again, I don't have intimate knowledge of what was said before, so I can't--
10:10 a.m.
Liberal
10:10 a.m.
Deputy Commissioner, National Police Services of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
You'd have to put that to the minister. I can tell you that right now the long gun registry makes up approximately 20% of the workload. You're right about terminals and infrastructure. That's still required. You're still going to have to look after licences and prohibited and restricted weapons.
10:10 a.m.
Liberal
Raymond Chan Liberal Richmond, BC
Okay.
I have a second question, Mr. Martin. In the position of the RCMP, would you recommend the cancellation of the long gun registry?
10:10 a.m.
Deputy Commissioner, National Police Services of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
You've put me in an awkward position.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
10:10 a.m.
Liberal
Raymond Chan Liberal Richmond, BC
They enforce the law. Why couldn't the RCMP give an answer as to whether they recommend the long gun registry or not?
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz
Mr. Chan and Mr. MacKenzie, with all due respect to our witnesses, they cannot answer policy questions. You're asking a question on policy, and I don't think it's fair to do that.
10:10 a.m.
Liberal
Raymond Chan Liberal Richmond, BC
I'll rephrase it, Mr. Chairman.
Would you think the long gun registry is important in reducing long gun crimes in this country?
10:10 a.m.
Deputy Commissioner, National Police Services of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
The important piece of information in the registry is the licensing. It's people who kill. They use weapons, firearms. The information we're looking for is which individuals have the right to own and possess firearms. When we attend calls, if we have that piece of information, we can take the extra care and attention. So the critical piece of information is who is licensed to carry.
10:10 a.m.
Liberal
Raymond Chan Liberal Richmond, BC
Right, and you're saying you don't have the right to retain that information on long gun owners?
10:10 a.m.
Deputy Commissioner, National Police Services of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
When it comes to ownership, whether you own a prohibited or restricted weapon or a long gun, you still require a licence.
10:10 a.m.
Liberal
Raymond Chan Liberal Richmond, BC
Right, but I don't understand why it is important to register handguns but not long guns. I just don't see the logic. Can you explain that to me?
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz
You're again asking a policy question. You should be asking questions on how the program works.
10:10 a.m.
Liberal
Raymond Chan Liberal Richmond, BC
No. I'm asking what the difference is between registering a handgun and a long gun in the prevention of crime.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
10:15 a.m.
Deputy Commissioner, National Police Services of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
The prime information is on the individual. If we go to a residence on a call, we're not interested in articles in the house as much as the person in the house and what they have available to them.
The critical piece of information right now is who is licensed and who has the potential to have in his or her possession a firearm, regardless of whether it's a long gun or a restricted or prohibited weapon.
