Evidence of meeting #30 for Public Safety and National Security in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was training.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Chris D. Lewis  Acting Deputy Commissioner, Field Operations, Ontario Provincial Police

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz

I would like to call this meeting to order. This is the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security, meeting number 30. We are today continuing our study on the arming of the Canada Border Services Agency officers.

We welcome to our committee today, from the Ontario Provincial Police, Acting Deputy Commissioner of Field Operations, Chris D. Lewis.

Welcome, sir.

The usual practice at this committee is to allow you an opening statement of approximately ten minutes. Then we begin with the questioning from the opposition side and end up with the government side.

So, again, welcome, and you may proceed as soon as you're ready.

11:15 a.m.

Chris D. Lewis Acting Deputy Commissioner, Field Operations, Ontario Provincial Police

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Ladies and gentlemen, good morning. It is an honour and a distinct pleasure for me to appear before you here today representing OPP Commissioner Julian Fantino. He sends his regrets, but unfortunately he had other commitments that prevented him from personally attending here today.

My remarks are based on the collective experience of Commissioner Fantino and me and our many years in law enforcement, working collaboratively with many law enforcement partners, including the fine women and men of the Canada Border Services Agency.

By way of background, the OPP is comprised of almost 6,000 uniformed officers and almost 2,000 civilian support staff who are deployed across the province of Ontario. All applicants for the position of OPP constable undergo a rigorous selection process. This includes various security checks, including the Canadian police information system. Applications are screened to ensure they meet legislative requirements and local OPP policy.

OPP applicants must possess a certificate of results issued by the constable selection system, and all constable selection system assessors are trained and certified. They administer a variety of specific physical tests, and I have details on that if you're interested during any questions.

Successful applicants complete a background questionnaire and are screened by OPP recruiters who interview each applicant on a one-on-one basis. Candidates who pass these evaluations then complete psychological testing of a variety of types, and these tests are scored by the OPP psychologist and either approved or not approved. The psychologist has the option of conducting a one-on-one interview with the candidate should the written testing require any additional exploration.

New recruits undergo a full year of training and assessment by the provincial police academy and the Ontario Police College, or the OPC, as well as a field recruit training officer. Recruits receive extensive training relating specifically to firearms proficiency and safe handling.

Prior to being issued a firearm, recruits undergo 33 hours of on-range, firearm-specific training at the OPC and 16 hours at the Ontario Provincial Police Academy. Recruits are issued a sidearm on graduation day when they are immediately assigned to a field posting and placed under direct one-to-one supervision with a recruit field training officer for four months. The training officer monitors the performance of the recruit for the balance of one full year and submits written monthly reports to a supervisor. Safe and proficient use of the firearm is assessed continuously during this time.

In terms of the OPP's interaction with the CBSA, of course, Canada-U.S. border security is primarily a federal matter, but the OPP does participate widely with the intelligence community as members of joint forces operations, such as integrated border enforcement teams and marine safety enforcement teams. The OPP are also engaged in border security issues through teams and projects such as our provincial auto theft team, our provincial weapons enforcement unit, and the firearms interdiction strategically targeting smugglers--FISTS, as it is known.

Should intelligence information indicate a need, the OPP can mobilize resources to deal with border issues in areas where the OPP is the police service of jurisdiction or when we are requested by another police agency.

The OPP has no resources dedicated solely to border patrol. The full array of OPP resources available to meet a provincial policing mandate are available, as they are for any other issue arising within that mandate, including uniform patrol officers; investigators of criminal investigations, narcotics, and firearms; the tactics and rescue unit; the emergency response teams we have across the province; our canine units; underwater search and recovery; explosives disposal; marine units; aviation services, etc.

The OPP does not have any formal memoranda of understanding with CBSA for emergency response purposes. Except in specifically planned interdiction operations, CBSA officers routinely conduct their daily activities without the benefit of having armed police partners like the OPP readily available for support.

As our first line of defence, they encounter weapons, including firearms, or if they are required to arrest potentially dangerous individuals who are trying to enter Canada, they do so with the training and equipment at their disposal at that time.

If they do summon the assistance of a law enforcement agency, such as the OPP, we will attend on a priority basis and from whatever geographic location our officers happen to be in at that moment in time. In many cases, that response may take many minutes, in other cases a half hour, and in some cases much longer than that. Certainly, an urgent request for assistance from CBSA will be of the highest priority. But responding OPP officers could be many miles away or tied up at another high-priority occurrence that prevents them from immediately responding.

It is our belief in the OPP that our Canada Border Service Agency personnel are Canada's first line of defence against organized crime groups, other criminals, drugs, firearms, and many other illegal commodities that may at any given time be crossing our borders into Canada. In that role, it is important that these dedicated men and women be properly trained and equipped to protect the security of our border and thereby contribute, ultimately, to the safety of Canadian communities. It is equally important that they be properly trained and equipped to protect themselves while carrying out this important mandate.

No one law enforcement agency can protect Canadian communities. It's the partnerships and the cooperation that exist between agencies like CBSA and the RCMP, as well as provincial and municipal police services, that can. It is that collective web that surrounds Canada, the provinces, and the communities therein--from our surrounding borders and into the heart of our many communities--that provides that strength.

When we established the Cornwall regional task force on smuggling and related criminal activity in 1993, CBSA, then known, of course, as Canada Customs and Revenue Agency, was part of that task force, and they were the first line of defence against contraband that was entering Canada through the port of Cornwall. Millions of dollars' worth of contraband liquor, tobacco products, narcotics, and other illegal commodities, including firearms, were brought through New York state into Ontario at Cornwall each year.

CBSA personnel interdicted large quantities of that contraband and apprehended the criminals who were moving them into Canada, right at the port of entry, using their skill and their unique legislative powers to search and seize illegal goods. The RCMP, the OPP, and the Cornwall police then patrolled the immediate area of the bridge into the city of Cornwall. Then the RCMP and the OPP established a further web, outwards, along area county roads and highways leading to the larger centres, such as Ottawa and Toronto, and further points east and west across this country.

Many of the criminals who were smuggling these illegal goods into Canada and then distributing them across Canada posed a threat to public safety, not only through the contraband products they were transporting and selling in our communities, but through their fear of apprehension and the subsequent penalties they would receive, as well as of the potential for significant financial loss.

Organized crime group members and their affiliates were quite prevalent in this trade, and in many cases, the men and women of the CBSA were their first law enforcement contacts at that critical point as they crossed that international line into Canada. Every arrest made by CBSA in that specific operation prevented criminals and contraband from further progressing into Canadian communities. It also prevented other law enforcement agencies, such as the OPP, from having to get involved with these criminals. This, of course, then eliminated some potential for police chases and the subsequent high-risk arrests from occurring along the highways or in the hearts of communities.

If these perpetrators were caught at all, the criminals were dealt with either at that very tense and most critical point of entry into Canada by the CBSA officers, or, alternatively, later, on a highway somewhere in Canada by a police service. However, in the case of CBSA intervention and interdiction, the criminals were approached by unarmed law enforcement officers.

It's interesting to note that my experience in managing that task force was that although the RCMP, the OPP, and the municipal police officers who were part of the task force were all committed to seizing contraband and preventing it from further getting into our communities, it was only a temporary assignment for us. For the most part, it wasn't our normal police business, nor was it an activity that we would participate in forever. On the other hand, CBSA officers were tirelessly dedicated to preventing contraband and unwanted persons from entering this country as an all-encompassing commitment, day in and day out, for their entire careers as public servants. They worked hand in hand with us, often in very tense situations where the potential for violence was ever present, but they did so as unarmed partners.

September 11, 2001, changed our world in terms of border security and community safety matters. The new environment tragically opened our eyes, as Canadian law enforcement agencies, to an increased threat to our safety and security.

As stated earlier, OPP officers on patrol, unfortunately, are not always close enough to the various ports of entry to respond and assist in a timely way.

When the Twin Towers were attacked, the OPP immediately dispatched officers to the various Canada-U.S. border points along the St. Lawrence in eastern Ontario to do nothing but provide armed support to unarmed CBSA officers as they dealt with the potential threat of individuals involved in the attack against the U.S. coming north to enter into Canada.

A minimum of four OPP officers, armed, stood watch to support and protect unarmed CBSA officers at Prescott and Lansdowne as they thoroughly questioned and searched people trying to enter into Canada, 24 hours a day, for a number of months. At the exact same time, at the other end of those bridges between New York and Canada, armed U.S. customs and immigration officers manned their posts, certainly with extremely heightened vigilance, but trained and armed as they always were, even prior to these tragic events.

Once again, the same criminals crossed the Canada-U.S. border day after day, but were dealt with at one end of the bridge by armed U.S. authorities and at the other end by CBSA officers who were virtually unequipped.

In summary, it is the opinion of the Ontario Provincial Police that properly trained and properly equipped armed Canada Border Service Agency officers will ultimately increase the safety and security of those officers, allowing them to rely less on the irregular and at times potentially untimely response of armed police partner agencies when faced with criminals armed with weapons.

Any arrests and seizures of contraband they make at the ports of entry will undoubtedly result in lessening Canada's police services'--federal, provincial, or municipal--need to deal with such criminals and contraband at later points, including on major highways in the heart of communities across Canada.

Thank you.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz

Thank you very much, sir. I believe there will be many questions on what you have brought forward.

We will begin with the honourable Roy Cullen from the Liberal Party.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Roy Cullen Liberal Etobicoke North, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mr. Lewis.

I am wondering if you could talk a bit about this. One of the issues the former government was pursuing was the whole issue of counterfeit goods, which come in various shapes and forms. Some are copyright infringements--intellectual property--but there are some that create a risk to our public health and safety. It could be counterfeit pharmaceutical drugs or it could be counterfeit electrical products that can create fire hazards or other problems.

The thing is, it requires a coordinated approach by government to bring various departments together--Heritage Canada, Industry Canada, Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness Canada, the RCMP, the Canada Border Services Agency, etc. I'm hoping the government is picking up on that, because I think it's a very serious issue, and we were starting to move on that on the other side.

But I'm wondering how you see it, sir, from your perspective--counterfeit goods. Is this a growing problem, and to what extent do you think organized crime is involved now?

11:25 a.m.

Acting Deputy Commissioner, Field Operations, Ontario Provincial Police

Chris D. Lewis

If there's money in it, and I assume there is, organized crime will be involved. Anywhere there are profits to be made with a minimum of risk...and traditionally, smuggling hasn't been a really risky business for some of these individuals. The millions and millions of dollars of goods we seized in Cornwall in those years in the nineties, when we had the specific taskforce in place, probably were just a small percentage of what was actually getting through.

In terms of counterfeit goods, sir, I really haven't had any specific experience in that, given that the RCMP would primarily be responsible. I know that on occasion our officers would run across it on the highways just by chance, really, when dealing with a violator or at an accident scene or something. But we haven't been involved specifically, to my knowledge, in targeting that sort of contraband.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Roy Cullen Liberal Etobicoke North, ON

Okay, thank you.

You talk about training people, the use of guns, and police officers. I had the occasion as a university student to work as a constable with the CPR police on the docks in Montreal. There were a lot of longshoremen there who probably hadn't been Boy Scouts all their lives. I went to Windsor Station, down in the basement, where they fingerprinted me. I shot maybe 25 rounds and then got my gun. Hopefully things have progressed since then. That was a private police force that may have had different standards.

Police officers have a lot of experience with firearms, and it's more than just training; a lot of it is experience. If you look at Canada and our borders, there are about eight or nine border crossings that probably take up about 80% to 90% of the goods and trade that come through. Why not look at a model where, in lieu of arming guards, we just make sure those borders have 24/7 access to the RCMP?

I'm not sure what's going to happen if people are apprised--it's called a watch list or a notice--that there might be some gun runners coming to the border, or some people smuggling people, drugs, or whatever. So now you have an officer at the border with a gun. I'm not sure if that will have a deterrent effect. Will people who are going to commit this kind of act really say, oh, we'd better not head up to Canada because their border guards are armed now? I'm not sure the deterrent effect is there, and I don't think it's appropriate for these officers to be pulling out their firearms at the border where there are many people. This is where law enforcement people like yourself, sir, have the experience to know how to deal with this. You can train for a lot of things, but you can't train for experience.

So have they looked at that sort of model, and would that work? Maybe you could just comment on that.

11:25 a.m.

Acting Deputy Commissioner, Field Operations, Ontario Provincial Police

Chris D. Lewis

Sure. There are a couple of things I'd like to comment on there. The deterrent effect may or may not be there on actually smuggling goods into Canada, whether or not the guards are armed. But it would only make sense that it might deter any aggressive action being taken against the customs officers, although not always, because people take aggressive action against police officers who are armed too.

For some time, because of some violence issues around the territory of Akwesasne and Cornwall, the RCMP actually assigned uniformed officers to stand at that bridge with customs officers, as they were then called, 24 hours a day. It was not an assignment any of the officers wanted to get. They found it extremely boring. It did nothing to train young officers on how to do police work. At a lot of airports years ago we used to see RCMP special constables, and after seven or eight years doing that sort of work they didn't have any real experience. They just stood there waiting for something to happen. At times they had to assist, make arrests, etc., but generally speaking, they weren't investigating crimes and dealing with the public in a way that a normal police officer would.

So it wasn't a good thing for morale amongst the officers. It wasn't a cherished assignment in the slightest. That in itself could lead to problems in terms of those officers not wanting that type of work. There's the potential for idle hands and idle minds to cause grief.

So that has been done in the past. The RCMP could comment on it a lot more effectively, but when I spent two years in Cornwall with the task force, we were doing it.

If we have advance notice that there's a load of guns coming through, by all means, we could put even a tactical team in there to try to deal with that. But the advantage of dealing with it in a more controlled environment is that it has less impact on public safety than if a chase erupts in the city of Cornwall, or if ultimately a gun fight erupts as you pull these people over in a parking lot at a mall or something.

So there really is some advantage, safety-wise, to handling them right there at that funnel as they come through customs.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

Roy Cullen Liberal Etobicoke North, ON

But they wouldn't be necessarily confronted right at the border, with all the other innocent people standing around. You're saying it could maybe be dealt with and contained, and that would be a good focal point.

11:30 a.m.

Acting Deputy Commissioner, Field Operations, Ontario Provincial Police

Chris D. Lewis

There are always people at these border points in various lanes of traffic, but the risk would be less than if they got into the city of Cornwall and pulled into a school area or a mall where there were hundreds and hundreds of cars parked. That was our experience there at the time.

Some cars got past customs, or for whatever reason didn't stop. That's going to happen too, and there are things that can stop cars other than firearms, like gates, etc. But we did end up in some chases in the city of Cornwall, and people were hurt, children were hurt, and it was terrible. If we could have stopped a chase from coming off that bridge into the city, we would have preferred that.

But if you're going to do that, you have to be prepared to take aggressive action if you're faced with aggressive action. That's tough to do if you're not suitably equipped.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz

Thank you.

Just a brief addition to that. If we followed that suggestion and reinforced eight or nine crossings in Canada, do you think the criminal element would start going over to some of the other ones that aren't as well reinforced?

11:30 a.m.

Acting Deputy Commissioner, Field Operations, Ontario Provincial Police

Chris D. Lewis

That's certainly a possibility. Not all of the contraband comes right through the customs ports. Sometimes it comes to shores in boats along the Cornwall area, outside of Cornwall, Morrisburg and all through that area. So that is a possibility.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz

Okay.

Monsieur Ménard.

11:30 a.m.

Bloc

Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC

Thank you.

Thank you for your contribution to our committee's work; it's definitely very much awaited and appreciated.

You told us about the training the Ontario police officers receive in weapons handling and the use of force. If I understand correctly, you provide a first unit of 33 hours, followed by another 16 hours, which I believe is given at the Ontario Police Academy.

Are there any simulation exercises during that training?

11:30 a.m.

Acting Deputy Commissioner, Field Operations, Ontario Provincial Police

Chris D. Lewis

Yes, sir, we do. There's a variety of different situations with varying types of light and darkness, where officers have to shoot from behind barricades, shoot from a kneeling position, shoot from a lying position, standing with barricades to the right, standing with barricades to the left--a variety of situations. Through research, our trainers across North America--who also communicate a fair amount to get the maximum benefit from what other agencies have learned in their experience--try to come up with all the various scenarios that, generally speaking, people would be faced with in that type of shooting situation.

11:35 a.m.

Bloc

Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC

In some of those simulations, do you use professional actors who adopt gradually violent behaviour?

11:35 a.m.

Acting Deputy Commissioner, Field Operations, Ontario Provincial Police

Chris D. Lewis

We do scenario training like that, but of course not with real guns. It's more the kind of scenario where you have to interact with actors, who are usually police officers acting the part. That happens a fair amount at the Ontario Police College. They have a little village set up with mock stores and mock buildings and apartments and street intersections, etc., where they can do that sort of training with actors.

11:35 a.m.

Bloc

Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC

If I've correctly understood, you aren't content with 49 hours of training. Later on in the police officers' career, you give more training in the use of their firearms.

11:35 a.m.

Acting Deputy Commissioner, Field Operations, Ontario Provincial Police

Chris D. Lewis

Yes, sir, annually. It's legislated in Ontario under the Ontario police act that you have to have annual firearms requalification training, as well as personal safety training in terms of handcuffing and restraining people without the use of a firearm. Of course, the firearm is the last resort, so you have to learn the different techniques to disarm and do things without the firearm so that you have those skills to enable you to do that in a safer way if possible.

So it happens annually within the OPP, and it has to occur within a 12-month period, not the calendar year, but within every 12 months. We review all our range rules and safety, firearm storage, and criminal code authorities to use the firearms. We review all of that in a classroom, and then our officers practise shooting 72 rounds from various distances and, as I described, various positions. Then after those 72 practice rounds, they have to fire 50 rounds to requalify at 10 different distances.

11:35 a.m.

Bloc

Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC

You said that, in that additional training, you give courses on the progressive use of force, firearms, of course, being the force of last resort.

Are these other control methods, without using ultimate force, taught during those 49 hours of courses that you told us about at the start, or are they part of an additional course?

11:35 a.m.

Acting Deputy Commissioner, Field Operations, Ontario Provincial Police

Chris D. Lewis

It's in addition to.

11:35 a.m.

Bloc

Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC

How many hours are devoted to the use of force without firearms?

11:35 a.m.

Acting Deputy Commissioner, Field Operations, Ontario Provincial Police

Chris D. Lewis

I don't know for sure. I'd only be guessing, sir, but certainly several hours. A lot of the self-defence training to take control of an individual who's fighting, to handcuff individuals who are uncooperative, that takes some hours for new recruits to get down to a science.

11:35 a.m.

Bloc

Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC

Is that roughly equivalent to what is devoted to the use of firearms?

11:35 a.m.

Acting Deputy Commissioner, Field Operations, Ontario Provincial Police

Chris D. Lewis

No, it would actually be less.

11:35 a.m.

Bloc

Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC

So you devote less time to it.