Evidence of meeting #2 for Public Safety and National Security in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was clerk.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz
You want to have the vote? Okay.
All those in favour—just let me get this straight here—that this priority of legislation motion be adopted, please raise your hands.
(Motion negatived)
4 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz
The next one is on motions:
That a notice of two working days shall be required for any substantive motion to be considered by the committee; And that the period of notice be calculated from the time the motion has been distributed to the members of the committee by the Clerk of the Committee; And that the motion shall be distributed to members in both official languages; And that all motions received by the Clerk shall be placed upon the agenda of the first committee meeting following the period of notice.
Is that clear to you?
One question I have on the wording is whether the motion is deemed distributed before it is translated. Does it have to be in the hands of the committee members before we start counting the two working days? Is that clear?
4 p.m.
Liberal
Bonnie Brown Liberal Oakville, ON
We don't like it. We're going to say “two working days from the time it has been received by the Clerk”, not “distributed...by the Clerk”. Otherwise there's no guarantee that it wouldn't take three or four days in the clerk's office.
4 p.m.
Conservative
4 p.m.
Liberal
Bonnie Brown Liberal Oakville, ON
The traditional way is from the moment it's received by the clerk.
4 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz
Okay. I still think my question on when you start that two days.... If a motion--and this is the same for both sides of the table--is submitted on this side and you don't get it until there is less than 24 hours because it has taken 24 hours to distribute, you're going to be blindsided by whatever the motion is. It's the same the other way around. I almost think you'd have to count it from the time the members get the motion.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz
Some members might not receive it before it would be up for debate at the committee.
Mr. MacKenzie.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
I think this one is actually to give everybody fair notice. I heard the clerk say to the chair, and I think he's absolutely right, that if I was to give him a notice of motion on a Friday afternoon, the committee would get it sometime on Monday at the earliest. It wouldn't give you a very fair opportunity to research that issue if we use the 48 hours in that manner. If you got it from the clerk on Monday and we had 48 hours, then everybody has a reasonable amount of time.
If we put that in there, I don't see where this issue, in any way, shape, or form, could be counterproductive to either the government or the opposition.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz
My feeling is that it protects everybody, but anyway, what further comments do you have?
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Bonnie Brown Liberal Oakville, ON
That's exactly the point. If somebody hands it in at 3:30 on Friday, the intention of that member would probably be that it be debated at the Tuesday meeting.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Bonnie Brown Liberal Oakville, ON
Yes, it could be. That's why usually people put in motions about things they think are pretty urgent. After all, the committee will have an agenda anyway that we're all working on together, and if a member wants to inject something into that agenda, it's probably something they consider to be pretty important on kind of an emergency basis.
If a person puts it in on Friday afternoon by 3:30 p.m., it should be ready to be debated by Tuesday at 3:30 p.m., unless the committee decides by motion to defer it to the next meeting or something. The fact is, if you don't do it that way, then the motion wouldn't be debated till Thursday. So something that was an emergency would then be waiting four business days before it could be debated.
When I was in the chair of the health committee, sometimes I saw motions in the morning of the day they were up for debate that afternoon, because of the problems with translation.
Believe me, we're pretty sharp. We can figure out what we feel about a motion, and debate it and vote on it. But if everybody feels unprepared, and maybe the issue is pretty complex, they can vote as a committee to defer it to a future meeting. Or they can table it or something like that, if it's too difficult to debate right away.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
Mr. Chairman, we could do it the other way around. We could put this in, and then if the committee felt strongly about an issue that they wished to debate without the 48 hours' notice, we'd do that at a committee meeting. If the standard process is that we have this in here, then everybody knows what it is. If it is important and it can't wait, then the committee can certainly deal with it.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Mr. Chair, my experience here on committees is of rather short duration, but in that duration I have not really noticed any problems with the notice provisions as they existed. This, again, is one of those areas where no issue has existed. If we simply retain the original motion as it was in the last session, it would be fine.
If there's a problem on a particular motion, obviously we can talk about it at that point. I've not come across an issue where the notice provisions as they existed have been difficult to deal with.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz
This is what the previous motion was:
That forty-eight (48) hours’ notice be required for any substantive motion to be considered by the Committee, unless the substantive motion relates directly to business then under consideration; and that the notice of motion be filed with the Clerk of the Committee and distributed to members in both official languages.
That's what we've had previously.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Which is that the 48 hours run from the receipt by the clerk. I think we should simply leave it. There's no need to beat this issue up any longer.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
That's been the tradition, that's been the convention. If we're now going to try to codify all of the conventions, I think we'll be here for a long time.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
I think that's why we're behind this, Mr. Chair. It is to try to make it so.... Some committees didn't function very well in the last session, and part of it was because of issues such as this that weren't codified. Then the argument becomes, when was the notice served, the time, and so on.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
I think we should get on to the real business. Let's get through this quickly.
