Public Safety Committee on June 10th, 2008

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I have a question.

The last time we checked, Mr. MacKenzie, PCO was at the centre of the government.

Let me just ask the question, though: when did the RCMP become aware of Madame Couillard's relationship with the then foreign affairs minister?

I can tell you there is no security breach or prejudicing of the investigation that you might be carrying on by simply answering that question.

[An hon. member]

[Inaudible--Editor].

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Yes, we can. The public can be the judge sometimes.

[A/Commr Raf Souccar]

I don't have any knowledge....

[C/Supt Bob Paulson]

Well, I can say that I saw Madame Couillard accompany the minister to Rideau Hall for his swearing-in ceremony when he was appointed the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

You knew of Ms. Couillard at that point, in the sense that she was known to the police.

[C/Supt Bob Paulson]

No. I personally did not know her, although I think, as the deputy has indicated, the RCMP knows Madame Couillard.

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

And it was known to the RCMP, at least that day, that it was Madame Couillard with Mr. Bernier.

[C/Supt Bob Paulson]

Oh. Well, no, I didn't--

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

But that's the question I'm asking. When did the RCMP come to know that it was Madame Couillard who was walking with him, and it was Madame Couillard who had a relationship with the then foreign affairs minister?

[A/Commr Raf Souccar]

I have no idea as to exactly at what point. As I said at the outset, we know who Ms. Couillard is, but at what point a connection was made as to what I, like Assistant Commissioner Paulson, saw during the swearing-in ceremony.... In terms of anything greater than that, I--

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I would like to know. I would like to ask you to provide that information to us.

[C/Supt Bob Paulson]

Okay.

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Check your files. I would like to know when the RCMP knew that it was Madame Couillard, with vast connections to organized crime, who was in a relationship with the foreign affairs minister.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Please go ahead, Mr. Brown.

[Gord Brown, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I know we've only got a minute or two left, so I really have just one question.

In retrospect, do you think it would be advisable for ministers to be re-vetted in anything additional that might be of interest in terms of security concerns about any other ongoing relationships when they are moved from one cabinet post to another? Do you think they should get re-vetted at that point?

[A/Commr Raf Souccar]

I believe that they do, when they go from one post to another, with the process that's in place right now. That's a background check on the individual alone. As they move from the Minister of Public Safety to Minister of Justice, or whatever it may be--from one post to another--I believe they go through the process again, but once again, it's only on the individual; it's not on spouses, friends, children, parents, and so on.

[Gord Brown, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville, ON]

Right.

Was that done when that cabinet shuffle happened? Were ministers who moved re-vetted at that point?

[A/Commr Raf Souccar]

Yes.

[Gord Brown, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Thank you very much.

I would like to thank our witnesses for coming here. You have given us a good outline of the procedures that you have in regard to security. We appreciate it very much.

This meeting stands adjourned.