Evidence of meeting #36 for Public Safety and National Security in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz
Okay.
We will now begin the second round. Please go ahead, Ms. Jennings.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
Thank you. I'm going to share my time with Ms. Barnes.
You say that the pre-appointment checks may include ministers, senators and so on, and that not only the candidate is investigated.
You also say that there is what you call a security check, a reliability check. Mr. Juneau-Katsuya talked about reliability, integrity and loyalty. That check is much broader and may include the spouse, neighbours, children, relatives and so on.
Do you conduct security checks on ministers on a regular basis?
4:55 p.m.
A/Commr Raf Souccar
No, absolutely not. We don't submit ministers' families to security checks.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
Then regardless of the security level involved, ministers are never regularly subjected to security checks?
4:55 p.m.
A/Commr Raf Souccar
A security check of a minister is up to his department itself.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
You're saying that it may be much more than the mere fact of checking to see whether the person has a criminal record.
That means that the department will, at some point, have to request the help of the RCMP in order to access truly protected information to which no one at the department has access without RCMP intervention.
4:55 p.m.
A/Commr Raf Souccar
That's correct. Sometimes there are agreements between departments and us so that we can conduct checks.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
Perfect.
Do you have an agreement with the Department of Foreign Affairs to conduct security checks? I'm not talking about a specific case. You're saying that the regulations and the process have been around since the 1980s. Since the 1980s, has the RCMP ever had to conduct a security check on a minister of Foreign Affairs or of that department under a former name? Yes or no?
4:55 p.m.
C/Supt Bob Paulson
I'm going to answer in English because I want to be precise.
The departments that have conduct of the security clearance process would, in the normal course of the clearance process, submit the background checks of those individuals who are identified in the application for the particular clearance of the individual who is seeking the clearance. In that respect, we would do those background checks.
As to your yes-or-no proposition as to whether we have done that for a Minister of Foreign Affairs, I cannot give you an answer to that.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
I'm taking directly from your statement. You say security clearances are separate from the pre-appointment background check process. Now you're talking about security clearance and background check. You just said here it's two different things.
5 p.m.
C/Supt Bob Paulson
Right.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
Right.
I'm asking you this. In the current system, which according to Mr. Souccar has been followed since the 1980s, has the RCMP ever been asked to do a security clearance beyond the pre-appointment background check on a minister?
5 p.m.
A/Commr Raf Souccar
Just to go back, the security clearances are done—
5 p.m.
Liberal
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
This would involve assessing the reliability and loyalty of the minister before he or she was given access to classified information. It's a simple question.
5 p.m.
A/Commr Raf Souccar
I'll try to answer it to the best of my ability and to the best of my knowledge.
Every department is responsible for its own security clearance proces. That's separate from the pre-appointment checks from PCO. Any department will do its own security clearance and its own security background checks. They have their own department security operations officer.
5 p.m.
A/Commr Raf Souccar
There may be, depending on the department, an agreement to conduct perhaps a CPIC inquiry on an individual. We would then respond back to the department and it would carry on with its own background checks. It would do its own interviews. It would do everything else that remains to be done on the security clearance. Every department has its own department security operations officer.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
I'm asking about the Department of Foreign Affairs, specifically.
5 p.m.
Conservative
5 p.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
I would like to clarify one point. If you have information to give the Prime Minister, you give it to the Privy Council. Did I understand correctly?
5 p.m.
A/Commr Raf Souccar
Yes. We won't call the Prime Minister, but rather the Privy Council.
5 p.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
I understand perfectly.
You won't call his chief of staff; you'll just call the Privy Council.
5 p.m.
A/Commr Raf Souccar
Absolutely, because the Privy Council is at the base of this entire process. It asks us to conduct the checks. So we report to the Privy Council, which made the request in the first place.