Public Safety Committee on March 25th, 2010

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brant, ON]

Thank you very much.

There was a further comment from the prior Solicitor General in terms of spending. I'll give the actual statistics. The cut was from $42,892,557 in his administration, the Liberal government's, when he was the minister, to $22,438,557. Those were the overall program cuts to the employment and employability programs. That's just to clarify, for the record.

The other thing I will mention is that it seems amazing to me that the other side would suggest and compliment a California-based program with statistics that show a program working really well when all prior comments from the Liberals on this committee have done nothing but trash the U.S. correctional system. It's an amazing chain of events at this committee today, to find there's a program in the United States....

Perhaps you'd like to comment on the last question I'd like to ask you. What it boils down to is that part of the review of developing a strategic plan is to make sure all things are considered, that there's good value for taxpayers' dollars and we are getting the safety of our citizens put first and foremost in all the programs we do in corrections. Would you please comment on whether or not that complete analysis was done prior to making these decisions to move away from this model?

[Ross Toller]

As I mentioned before, we know very clearly that our offenders come with unstable work histories, with a significant lack of vocational skills training. We know very well there are trades, vocational skills, and labour markets. We work closely with a number of people to get third-party accreditation for the skills required to lead them to a more sustainable future and likelihood of a job. We know very clearly that landing a job, maintaining a job, will have an impact on recidivism rates.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brant, ON]

Thank you. I'm going to pass my time onto—

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mark Holland]

You've got ten seconds.

[Daryl Kramp, Conservative, Prince Edward—Hastings, ON]

Might I ask the chair for a little bit of forgiveness on one point only?

Certainly I couldn't agree more with the statement made by Madame Mourani. This committee should deal with the issues. It's regretful that it started; it shouldn't have, and I apologize to our witnesses too. This is about decisions we have to reach for the Canadian taxpayer, for the efficiency and operations of government. As we move forward, we have responsibilities to the Canadian taxpayer to be custodians of the dollar, to get the best value for money.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mark Holland]

Okay, that's—

[Daryl Kramp, Conservative, Prince Edward—Hastings, ON]

Our local community needs have to be brought into consideration as well.

Is the cost-effectiveness there in the success of the programs? That's for this committee to evaluate.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mark Holland]

I understand that. I appreciate the comments very much. There's about a minute and a half.

There is one minute and thirty seconds left, just enough for a very short question.

Mr. Carrier, you have the floor.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

You know, this is my first time sitting on this committee. I am however very interested in matters relating to public safety given that there are detention facilities in my riding.

I am very surprised at the lack of information provided in order for us to discuss a matter that is so important for all of the people who are here today. I hold little hope with regard to the strategic review we have asked to be provided with.

Could you at least give us the employability rate and the recidivism rate for each program category? It would have been interesting to have these statistics in order to have a debate on your decision. We could have understood the importance of your decision to abolish the farms. Might we be provided with this information, by program?

[Ross Toller]

I mentioned in some cases we don't have them. We can provide you, without question, any material we have on recidivism rates. Some of those are very strongly oriented to some of our programs of violence prevention.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

This information will therefore be forwarded to the Clerk?

Thank you very much.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mark Holland]

Merci beaucoup.

Let me take the opportunity to thank the witnesses for appearing before committee today. I know passions were high. I appreciated your appearance today and the time you took to answer the questions. It was very informative. I wish you good day.

Thank you.

The committee is adjourned.