Public Safety Committee on March 25th, 2010

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Maybe you're not understanding my question. People come through the prison farm program and come out the other side. What are the statistics for them, in terms of how many people are engaged in meaningful employment once they come out, relative to the other programs you are putting on? That's a much more important statistic.

[Ross Toller]

I really am not sure if I understand your question. Sorry.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

The point is that for some reason you think that if you get these skills, you can only work in agriculture. What I am hearing from construction and many other industries is that they value this program because of the work ethic it teaches and that they desire people coming out of these programs for things like construction and other programs. So a real comparison would be the statistics of those coming out of other programs versus those coming out of the prison farm program in terms of employment, period, and not just in agriculture.

[Ross Toller]

As I mentioned, we don't have that broken down, but again I go back--

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

How can you make the point that...? You don't know whether it's not effective, but you're saying it's not effective. You're telling me that it doesn't give good job skills, yet you're telling me that you don't have comparative job statistics for people who are coming out of these programs.

[Ross Toller]

What I am telling you is that the labour market demand for agricultural work is very low--

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

That's for agricultural work. I'm talking about--

[Ross Toller]

Construction trades and general labour are very clear here, and I think that's evident in the statistics we have there. Many construction workers look for employability, marketable skills, such as areas where there's apprenticeship and vocational training.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Chair, I want to make one point, and we're going to come back to this. Please make the distinction.... I think this is the problem with all the information we're getting. I am not suggesting that every person who comes out of the prison farm program is going to get a job in agriculture. It's quite the opposite. What I am saying is that the skills they're learning are actually vital and fundamental, so much so that they become very desirable when they come out. That's everything that I hear from every person I talk to. What you're telling me is that you don't have any statistics to demonstrate the contrary, so what I want and what we need and what we should have before a decision is made to shut down prison farms is the actual numbers. If it's not actually working to get people jobs, then show me the numbers.

[Ross Toller]

I believe what I did say to you is that the skills that are learned in any job are applicable to any other type of job, and I think that goes without saying. Those are the things we talked about: teamwork, punctuality, reliability, dependability. There is no question of that in my mind.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

I just want a comparison of program to program.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

We'll have to leave it there.

Go ahead, Ms. Mourani, please.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I thank you for your presence and for your statement.

My questions are more for Mr. Godbole. I believe that you are from Quebec. Is that the case?

[Pushkar Godbole, Director General, Technical Services and Facilities, Correctional Service Canada]

No.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

You are not from Quebec?

[Pushkar Godbole]

No.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

But I expressly requested that there be someone able to talk to us about Quebec. I was told that Mr. Godbole would be able to talk about Quebec and the food provisionment system.

[Pushkar Godbole]

I believe I am able to respond regarding this issue.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

I asked to hear Mr. Vaillancourt and I was told that Mr. Godbole would be here. You are therefore are able to answer the questions.

[Pushkar Godbole]

Indeed.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

I sent you a series of questions relating not only to the entire food provisionment system, but also the suppliers, the food products, the prices and the portions that can be found in Quebec and those originating from Ontario. I would like to have information on that. Do you have this information?

[Pushkar Godbole]

If I understand your question correctly, you're asking what percentage of the products that are purchased from CORCAN are used in Quebec. Is that what you're saying?

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

No, let me clarify my question.

[Pushkar Godbole]

Very well.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

I will clarify. At the present time, in Quebec penitentiaries, what proportion of the food products — eggs, meat, vegetables, etc. — provided to prisoners is purchased in Quebec, from our Quebec farmers, and what portion originates from outside of Quebec?