Public Safety Committee on Feb. 15th, 2011

[A/Commr Peter Henschel]

I would suggest it's because nobody came to us and said we need an up-to-date criminal record.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you. Your time is up.

We will now go back to the Conservatives.

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

I have just a couple of questions, and Mr. Norlock perhaps will have a couple after.

When we talk about CPIC, there is a CPIC advisory body. I assume it's still in operation. Who is that CPIC advisory body composed of? Maybe you could enlighten us.

[A/Commr Peter Henschel]

It's composed of representation from many police services across the country and also other public safety agencies.

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

So it's representative of the agencies that utilize CPIC.

[A/Commr Peter Henschel]

That's correct.

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

And from time to time that advisory body will ask for something, either enhancements or something with respect to.... It doesn't just sit there and chug away. There are people and agencies outside of the RCMP that provide counsel?

[A/Commr Peter Henschel]

Absolutely. In fact, when CPIC renewal was completed, starting in the late nineties and going forward, the CPIC advisory committee was actually even bolstered to make sure that there was appropriate representation. What was delivered was very much as a result of the work that the CPIC advisory committee did. So we had senior officials from various police services across the country that basically set the agenda and the requirements for CPIC renewal.

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

So the communication, in actual fact, goes both ways in that committee? I think that's important.

[A/Commr Peter Henschel]

Absolutely, and I think it's very important also to say that while the RCMP are the stewards of CPIC, and we manage CPIC, we manage it on behalf of the police community. There is shared governance and a shared decision-making process that takes place.

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Sure.

Mr. Norlock might have a couple of questions.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

I have just a couple. We were talking about accuracy, and we were talking about the ability of the CPIC system to be as accurate as humans can possibly make it. Would I be correct in saying that not all police forces send in quality information, and that if they don't send the appropriate quality information--and I'm talking about legibility or readability of a fingerprint, and/or the cross-checking of a photograph to make sure it meets the right file number and that it matches your FPS number--that you would return that to the police department and tell them, “Give us better quality information”? Would I be correct in saying that's what assists you in maintaining the quality and standards you're accustomed to?

[A/Commr Peter Henschel]

Absolutely, and we will not enter anything that doesn't meet the highest rigours in quality. As we're moving forward with RTID and the automation for police services, when this is done we'll be able to submit fingerprints from criminal charges electronically. One of the things that will do is actually cut down the error rate significantly, because it won't go through the submission unless they've done everything properly.

Right now I think we send 2,000 or 3,000 messages a month back to police services because they haven't properly completed the forms. We cannot enter them because we don't have the right information to enter them into the criminal record system. So once we have the automation for criminal submission, it will take off a big workload. Just think about sending 2,000 or 3,000 messages a month chasing police services and police officers to get information. That just compounds month after month.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

So as part of the automation, or to put it more simply, the mode you're trying to get everyone to adapt to and adopt, as you become more automated, your operation will probably become less human-intensive.

That's why you mentioned when some of the non-partisan.... And by the way, in this arena, when they say it's not about the money, it's about the money. When they say it's non-partisan, it really is. They want to help you get at us and that sort of thing. Anyway, we'll leave that alone.

Just to get back to that, the automation may end up alleviating some of the human resource requirements that you currently have.

[A/Commr Peter Henschel]

Certainly it will go a long way to resolving some of those issues.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

That's why you indicated that it's not as simple as more money or more people.

You've been with the RCMP how many years?

[A/Commr Peter Henschel]

I'm coming up to 30.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Have you ever heard of or seen a government department tell their administrative or political arm of the government that you have enough and you don't need any more?

[A/Commr Peter Henschel]

Listen, you're never going to get any police service saying that it couldn't use more. It's a fact that we have to prioritize, and it goes back to Mr. Holland's question right at the very beginning concerning national police services. We realize that there are funding challenges everywhere, and what we're trying to do is the best possible with what we have.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

You're being responsible.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Norlock.

We'll now go back to the Bloc.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'd like to go back to the point I raised earlier because I'm not entirely satisfied with the response. You'll tell me if I'm wrong.

The act that currently governs criminal records does not state any clear directives on what a criminal record should include. In those conditions, the act certain contains some deficiencies.

[Guylaine Dansereau]

No, that's clear.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

The act clearly states what a criminal record should include? Yes? All right.

No RCMP internal directive provides any more information on how to proceed or on the information that must appear in a criminal record. Is that correct?

[Guylaine Dansereau]

Our internal directives are consistent with the act and processes that must be followed.