Evidence of meeting #54 for Public Safety and National Security in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:10 a.m.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
I'm told that, depending on the province—I'm giving you the figures for Quebec—between 10% and 40% of indictable offences are never entered in the criminal record data base. Is that true?
9:10 a.m.
A/Commr Peter Henschel
We don't know that.
9:10 a.m.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
Do you have control tools to measure your rate of failure to enter information in the criminal record repository? Do you have performance reports?
9:10 a.m.
A/Commr Peter Henschel
No, we don't have any measures to verify that.
9:10 a.m.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
Because you're unable to measure it, you can't confirm or deny that between 10% and 40% of indictable offences in Quebec, for example, aren't entered in the criminal record repository. Is that correct?
9:10 a.m.
Guylaine Dansereau Director General, Canadian Criminal Real Time Identification Services, Forensic Science and Identification Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
We don't have that information. However, it is very important to know that the offences are not all our responsibility, depending whether the offences are major or minor. The information on certain offences remains the property of the police department since no fingerprints are taken for those offences under the Identification of Criminals Act.
9:10 a.m.
Director General, Canadian Criminal Real Time Identification Services, Forensic Science and Identification Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
No, we're also talking about criminal offences.
In the national criminal record repository, we will enter information related to the fingerprints that we are entitled to keep. If fingerprints don't have to be taken for a particular offence committed, the information will not be forwarded to us.
That must be included in the statistics you cited. However, as regards that information, it isn't that the police department doesn't send it to us. It doesn't need to do it since that information is included in the information that's kept in the national criminal record repository.
9:10 a.m.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
To be more specific, what I'm told is that there is an error rate. In my opinion, a percentage between 10% and 40% is quite alarming. I would be concerned. What I'm told is that the error rate in fact concerns criminal offences in which fingerprints have been taken, not those where fingerprints are not taken.
However, what I find surprising is that, since the system has been in place, there have been no tools for assessing the error rate. No cost-benefit report has been issued. There's no oversight to measure the rate of non-entry in the repository. No report has ever been prepared. I find it quite surprising that there has been no evaluation report.
9:15 a.m.
A/Commr Peter Henschel
There's no way to measure that.
We do not know how many people have been arrested for criminal offences--how many people have been charged for either indictable or dual-conviction offences--so there's no way for us to track that. The only thing we can do is manage what is submitted to us.
It's the responsibility of the local police to take fingerprints when it's allowed under the Identification of Criminals Act, and submit them to us. But if they don't do that, we have no idea they're not doing it, or we don't know at what level they're not doing it. We can only do what is submitted to us.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you very much, Mr. Henschel.
We'll now move to Mr. Davies, please.
9:15 a.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
In preparation for this meeting I sent a memo to all of my colleagues in the New Democratic Party, asking what their experience was with their constituents. I'm sure that none of this is new to you. I'm sure you deal with this frustration all the time.
Here's a sample of what I got back. It's taking 120 days—four months—to get a criminal record check answer back. I've had some people tell me it's 120 working days. I have story after story after story of people losing job opportunities, not being able to volunteer in their communities, or being embarrassed. In one case a man told me that by the time he got the certificate—it was good for 90 days—it had expired. After waiting four months, he gets a certificate in the mail. He was trying to volunteer with his son's Beaver Scout troop, and he said he suffered enormous embarrassment.
These are the problems that I think are being faced probably on all sides of the table across the country. So my first question is this. I think we all agree and I think I heard you say that's unacceptable, that length of time. So what is the service standard that the RCMP is establishing? Do you have a service standard as to how fast you want to get a criminal record check done?
9:15 a.m.
A/Commr Peter Henschel
Where we're moving with the automation is to make that an almost instantaneous process. We're not there yet, as I mentioned. The automation is ongoing. I think we have the solution now in sort of 85% to 90% of the cases for those people who don't have a criminal record, who have no previous records of any sort. Those now can really be done instantaneously if the police services connect with us through the RTID system and we are able to run fingerprints.
9:15 a.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
What would I tell the Canadian public? How long will it be before that system is in place?
9:15 a.m.
A/Commr Peter Henschel
That system is in place. It's now a matter of individual police services.
9:15 a.m.
A/Commr Peter Henschel
It will be as quick as they want to do it. It's a matter of weeks, at most, for us to connect them and do the testing that needs to be done.
9:15 a.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Okay. Would it be a fair comment to say that this problem will likely be solved for the vast majority of people within six months?
9:15 a.m.
A/Commr Peter Henschel
I can't speak on behalf of what police services will do out there, but certainly I would suggest that it's a possibility.
9:15 a.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
I also receive concerns from people who have difficulty crossing the border. My understanding is that U.S. border guards, or the Department of Homeland Security, their border agencies, have access to CPIC. Is that correct?
9:15 a.m.
Chief Superintendent Charles Walker Director General, Canadian Police Information Centre, Forensic Science and Identification Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Yes, that is correct; they do.
9:15 a.m.
NDP
9:15 a.m.
C/Supt Charles Walker
We established an exchange with the U.S. in the eighties.They have a similar system there. It's called NCIC. We have access to NCIC here; they have access to CPIC there.
9:15 a.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Do they have access to our full CPIC, all four databases, the entire system?
9:15 a.m.
C/Supt Charles Walker
The U.S. border guards have category one CPIC access, which is the equivalent to what Canadian police have, yes.