Evidence of meeting #25 for Public Safety and National Security in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was monitoring.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC
So you do have money in your current budget to pursue this?
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC
Is this a strategy for coping with a possible increased prison population overall, where you can put more people on electronic monitoring?
4:20 p.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
No. There's all kinds of literature out there about people trying to use electronic monitoring to reduce prison populations. That's not the case for us. For us, it's very specifically the kinds of conditions that are placed on offenders who are released into the community and providing a tool to my parole staff to assist them in managing those cases in the best way they can.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC
Okay.
You talked about it as integrated, and it was operated by Corrections Canada staff, so there was no involvement by the private sector other than in providing equipment, and you wouldn't anticipate any involvement by the private sector...?
4:20 p.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
No. I mean, ideally the situation for us is to have that kind of equipment provided and us monitoring it through our own monitoring centre.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
Yes. I have just a short question, and I understand that you have one, Chair.
I just wondered about the $15 a day. You might have actually said this in your notes. Did that include the monitoring or was that all the...?
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
All inclusive for $15 a day. Okay.
Thank you.
Go ahead, Chair. You have a question.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
I do have a couple of questions.
If this is specific to Bill C-10, there are two clauses that bring it out, and you went perfectly...you were right in order, even, on the use of them.
First of all, the bill says:
The Service may demand that an offender wear a monitoring device in order to monitor their compliance with a condition of a temporary absence, work release, parole, statutory release or long-term supervision that restricts their access to a person or a geographical area or requires them to be in a geographical area.
That's exactly as you stated it. The second part says:
An offender who is required to wear a monitoring device is to be given reasonable opportunities to make representations to the prescribed official in relation to the duration of the requirement.
The first question I would have is that it says the service “may demand”, so it's discretionary...?
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Who makes that call? Is it the parole officer, the probation officer, the Corrections Service...? Who?
4:20 p.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
Yes, it will be the Correctional Service, and it will be between our probation staff and— I'm sorry. Not probation staff, that's the province. It will be between our parole officers and parole supervisors.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
So in provincial jurisdictions, where this is used, the probation officer does much the same as what our parole officer is doing, then, or will do?
4:20 p.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
Yes. Just very quickly, Mr. Chair, in the provinces and territories there's a couple of different regimes. One is where it is controlled by the probation staff, who do a very similar job to that of parole officers. Yes, they supervise the court-ordered probation orders. In Saskatchewan, it's actually the court that decides who wears the bracelet.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Okay. This is my point. If the service has the discretion to do it, is it a possibility that, without the use of that EM, release may not be given? If you are giving them temporary absences—or ETAs, escorted temporary absences—or work releases, is there a chance that without this monitoring system a parole officer may say that he or she is just not certain yet that they should release someone?
4:20 p.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
It is quite possible. If I have a series of conditions that are going to be impossible for a parole officer to meet, we'll be explaining that to the Parole Board of Canada and saying that with those conditions we're not going to be able to supervise this individual.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Then an EM may be a quick opportunity for an offender to get out and to work and to maybe better himself or whatever. That was my first question—the discretion.
The second one is about a condition of temporary absence. Is that the same as an escorted temporary absence?
4:25 p.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
Yes, it's probably unlikely that we would use electronic monitoring for escorted temporary absences, because there would be a staff member who is supposed to be within sight and sound of the offender at all times. But for unescorted temporary absences, this is probably where we'd use it—again, if we had specific conditions.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
All right, and I'm sorry to hear that, to be quite honest.
Drumheller Institution is in my riding. There have been two escorted temporary absences there with two offenders—Mr. Bicknell I think was one of them and the other one was Fowler—and on these escorted temporary absences, staff members were attacked. I think there was probably an attempted murder charge on one; he tried to kill her.
And there was no GPS. They were on this escorted temporary absence for a family visit, and we weren't certain what road they took. I mean, there was a real concern there. Are you saying that on an escorted temporary absence this wouldn't be something that you may use?
4:25 p.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
No, I should clarify. It would not necessarily be a case that absolutely no escorted temporary absences...that it would not be used. It's possible to use it. Again, you yourself mentioned the discretion we have under the proposed legislation.
In the two examples you've brought up, there is actually a broader question as to whether those individuals should have been out on an ETA or any kind of temporary absence. But minimally, for unescorted temporary absences going to specific locations, we are more than likely probably going to use those all the time. Escorted ones will be based on a risk/need assessment, and the warden will have the authority to make the decision as to whether that condition will be applied to that kind of temporary absence.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Some day I'd like to talk to you a little more about those two examples, because those were horrific, in my opinion, and I think there are a lot of things that we can be doing to maybe correct some of the things that took place.
The final question I would like to ask you...it has now slipped from me. They will be given the opportunity, if they're wearing this monitoring thing, and if they don't like it.... If they aren't given that opportunity, they may given a chance to lobby why they should have one and why then they should be able to go on an ETA. But if they are wearing one, this says they are given ample opportunity to go to a parole officer or to anyone in corrections and discuss or make representation to the duration for which they are going to wear one.
4:25 p.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
Yes. They can make all the representations they want about whether they wear it or don't wear it, but as you see in the legislation, if we decide to use the discretion, we'll be directing it, so it's not that they'll have the choice to wear it or not. The opportunity they will have is to make representation for the duration. The duration could be for the entire time of a release or, as we've talked about, it may be based on an incentive. If they show the right kind of behavioural changes and whatever, it may be for a shorter period of time. They can make representations for that.