Public Safety Committee on May 9th, 2013

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Okay.

Going back to the RCMP, Chief Superintendent Tremblay, recently the government's Combating Terrorism Act was passed, giving police new tools and powers to address the threat posed by terrorism. As much as you can say, politically, what is your view of Bill S-7? Is it going to give you some more tools in your tool belt?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Go ahead.

[C/Supt Larry Tremblay]

Thank you.

Obviously I cannot comment on pending legislation, but I can say that we will make use of all tools that are made available to us for law enforcement purposes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much.

We'll move to Mr. Garrison, please, for seven minutes.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I too would like to thank all the witnesses for appearing at short notice.

In particular I extend thanks to VIA Rail and the RCMP for their very quick action on the most recent anti-terrorism case, which of course on our side we believe demonstrates that the tool box is probably full and being made good use of.

I want to start with a question to VIA Rail about how VIA Rail is treated by the government, in terms of anti-terrorism strategies and activities. Are you at VIA Rail treated solely in the same manner as any other private institution, despite the fact that you're a crown corporation?

[Marc Beaulieu]

I'll defer that to our director of security.

[Marc Tessier, Director, Corporate Security and Regulatory Affairs, Safety, Security and Risk Management, VIA Rail Canada Inc.]

Thank you.

We work very closely with the industry and with the governing agencies, such as Transport Canada. Because of the nature of our business, we have very customer-focused and passenger-focused inspection criteria with Transport Canada. I would say that it is mostly due to the nature of our business, rather than to the fact that we are a crown corporation, that we enjoy that closer relationship.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

When it came to something such as the government's anti-terrorism initiative, which started in late 2001 or early 2002, would VIA Rail have been invited to submit proposals for funding for anti-terrorism initiatives under the proposal, or were you simply left with the other, private sector groups to take care of those security things with your own resources?

[Marc Beaulieu]

We rely on our own operating budgets to put these plans in place.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

What that would indicate is that, under the national strategy and action plan for critical infrastructure, we would find VIA Rail in the transportation sector, under that strategy in 2011. Would that be a good understanding of where you're participating in these initiatives?

[Marc Beaulieu]

That's correct.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

I'll turn to Mr. Davies from Public Safety.

Was any of the money from the anti-terrorism initiative allocated to critical infrastructure projects?

[John Davies]

Are you talking about the PSAT money?

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

That's right.

[John Davies]

I don't have knowledge of the way that money was broken down.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

We've had the recent report from the Auditor General that expressed concerns about identifying where the money was spent. One area in which I still have a question concerns whether you would be able, at a later date, to tell us whether any of that money was allocated to national critical infrastructure such as VIA Rail.

[John Davies]

I'm certain that some was allocated to the transport sector.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Yes, Mr. McDonald?

[Gerard McDonald]

Mr. Chair, I may be able to provide a bit of clarification.

One of the programs under that rubric was, as I alluded to earlier, the Transit-Secure program, which identified roughly $115 million to be spent to enhance the security of rail and urban infrastructure.

Under that program, all rail and urban transit operators were eligible to apply. VIA Rail did not apply under that particular program, but they did benefit from security enhancements that were made under the program to Toronto's Union Station and to gare Centrale in Montreal.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Going back again to the Auditor General's recent reports, one of the things they identified was some gaps in overall coordination. We have the public safety anti-terrorism initiative in 2001. We have the building resilience against terrorism, Canada's counterterrorism strategy, 2012. We have a national strategy and action plan for critical infrastructure. We have Canada's cyber-security strategy. We have Canada's counterterrorism strategy.

Who is actually coordinating all of the work on the anti-terrorism strategy? How is that coordination done? I know it is officially assigned to Public Safety, but we have this whole set of strategies covering various things. Where does that coordination occur?

[John Davies]

For the counterterrorism strategy, Public Safety Canada coordinates, on behalf of the security intelligence community, the implementation of that strategy, likewise for the strategy on critical infrastructure, and it is the same thing for the cyber-strategy.

I'm sorry, I've forgotten the others you mentioned, but at Public Safety, as I mentioned at the beginning of my remarks, we develop policy with the community. We put things together with them and we implement with them as well. It's our job to work with the community, document what has been going on, create the action plans, and report to ministers and to cabinet about how things are going in terms of progress.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

If this coordination is going on at Public Safety, how is that related to the coordination of spending on the anti-terrorism initiatives? In other words, you have the coordination of policy aspects, but who is coordinating the assignment of resources to these anti-terrorism things?

[John Davies]

Again, if you're talking about the PSAT money, I think that money has run out some time ago. Most resources for departments and agencies are called A-base or normal core funding of these departments.

Are you asking if there are additional resources and who designs where incremental dollars go? Is that what you're asking?

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

One of the concerns the Auditor General identified was that there was a lack of evidence that proposals for spending under anti-terrorism initiatives were clearly based on threat and risk assessments. So I'm trying to determine who would be responsible for making sure that the money we're spending, whether it's department by department or overall in government, is based, as the Auditor General said, on national threat and risk assessments.

Is that the responsibility of your coordinating groups? Is that the responsibility of Treasury Board?

[John Davies]

Again I think you're talking about discrete initiatives of some years ago. Obviously for core spending now, there are departmental performance reports. There are various reports that are public and discussed. Whether it's the estimates, the public accounts, all that kind of normal corporate reporting, that's when those issues are discussed and debated amongst parliamentarians.