Public Safety Committee on May 9th, 2013

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

If we have a little bit of time, Mr. Beaulieu might be interested in answering that question.

I have a question for you, Mr. Davies, but you may find that it's better answered by Mr. Coulombe or Mr. Tremblay. In your opening remarks, you talked about terrorist-related incidents. That got me thinking that we have a number of incidents of civil unrest or civil disobedience. I'm just wondering, what is the definition of a terrorist, in relation to public safety, that you use in Transport, in the government, and in the agencies? What distinguishes a terrorist from someone who is blocking a railway line, for example?

[John Davies]

I'm referring to the CT, counterterrorism, strategy. We tend to not define terrorism directly. We talk about the terrorist activities that you see described in the Criminal Code. That's an act or omission undertaken inside or outside Canada for a political, religious, or ideological purpose, which is intended to intimidate the public.

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

So that would include first nations blocking a rail line, for example?

[John Davies]

Ahh...

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Under that definition....

[John Davies]

I think there's an element of subjectivity in how you look at this.

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

I have a second question for you.

It's about the INSETs, which I didn't know about until your opening remarks. They sound like a good idea but I didn't see the railroads represented. Are railways represented on INSETs?

[C/Supt Larry Tremblay]

We have a member of the CN police on secondment to national security here at headquarters for that specific purpose.

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

I'm curious as to what the response has been to INSETs. The RCMP, and maybe Mr. Coulombe, might want to answer also. You're also part of that group. Perhaps if we have time, Mr. Tessier might want to respond as well.

How are they working?

[C/Supt Larry Tremblay]

They're in Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa, Vancouver, and now Edmonton. They are an extremely efficient and effective way to pull multi-agencies together. They are very focused and ensure timely information sharing. They also ensure that there's notification. Overall, they make investigation of terrorist-related activity far more efficient and timely.

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Mr. Coulombe, would you care to comment on that, or agree with Chief Tremblay?

[Michel Coulombe]

I can only echo Mr. Tremblay. When I was in Montreal, in charge of Quebec, we had a member of CSIS seconded to INSET at C Division. This facilitated the exchange of information. The CSIS member had access to her own database. INSETs facilitate liaison and are a good approach to counterterrorism.

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Mr. Tessier, do you care to make a comment, or Mr. Beaulieu?

[Marc Beaulieu]

We're not members of INSET, but we certainly receive information from them. I echo the comments of the RCMP and CSIS that it's a very effective way of receiving the information.

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much, everyone, for appearing and helping the public safety and national security committee understand a little more about rail safety and security.

Mr. Del Mastro asked the question about young people and paint cans. I guess different people view different things in different ways. Many aspiring young artists see a canvas every time they see a grain car, so they're down there. Terrorists may very well see potential for a terrorist act.

Different people have different roles. Your role is to protect Canada, to protect the security of Canadians. We thank you very much for the very important work you're doing, seemingly in an organized fashion, where issues of the past—turf wars and things like that—don't seem to be as present today as maybe 20 years ago. So thank you very much.

We are adjourned.