Public Safety Committee on Feb. 25th, 2019

[Bill Blair]

Clearly, money laundering is an issue we take seriously. It is a significant portion of my responsibility and mandate. I have gone to British Columbia. I have met with the attorney general and the premier there. I've also met with Dr. Peter German, who has conducted the reviews of money laundering in their casinos and is currently undertaking and completing another review, with respect to the impact on the real estate industry.

We have been working very closely with that province, but it is a problem that is not limited only to British Columbia. I'm aware that our officials have recently concluded an investigation in Ontario and Quebec into money laundering, so it is an issue that the RCMP takes very seriously. In collaboration with the provinces and territories, we also think that there are opportunities to continue to improve these investigations and the prosecutions that will flow from them, so we're working on those things together right now.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Thank you.

I have two questions on street gangs, which is also part of your mandate.

There is a lot of talk about finances and strategies. But I wonder what the money is being used for, more specifically. Before the recruitment fund was eliminated by the previous government, provinces and territories could hire front-line officers, for places not covered by the RCMP.

As a Quebec member, the example that comes to my mind is the Section Éclipse in Montreal. That could have been eliminated because the funding was terminated. In the end, the province and the municipality stepped in to fill the gap in the funding.

Do you foresee reinstating that recruitment fund, which enables provinces and municipalities to fight street gangs, especially in Ontario and Quebec? As you know, in those two provinces, the provincial police forces are part of that fight and must have the resources they need.

[Bill Blair]

I am familiar with the previous government introducing the police officer recruitment fund, in 2008. That fund expired in 2013, and it was not continued.

I can tell you what we've been doing with respect to guns and gang violence. First of all, Minister Goodale convened a summit of law enforcement and other community officials from across the country to gather information, and based on the feedback we received, an announcement was made by Public Safety Canada and $347 million was committed to a number of different initiatives in response to gun and gang concerns across the country.

Some of that money was dedicated to both the RCMP and the CBSA for the important work that they do in interdicting the supply of guns and conducting criminal investigations into the individuals responsible for it. Also, a significant portion of that funding, some $214 million, is to be allocated through the provinces and territories to various initiatives, including, but not limited to, law enforcement initiatives. Those discussions are currently taking place with the provinces and territories for the allocation of those monies.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

I have a minute left, Minister.

One of my colleagues, Ms. Dabrusin, asked about CBSA oversight. It feels like it's been three years now that Mr. Goodale has been telling us over and over that it's coming, so maybe we'll get a bill that we can adopt before the election.

Glibness aside, I do want to address this issue. I don't know if you could comment on this, or if this is for Minister Goodale. He did mention that the new review body created in Bill C-59 would look into issues relating to national security. However, many of the issues that have come forward, especially in the media, that such a body could look at—in particular, allegations of harassment in the workplace and things of that nature, or even some of the security issues that have been raised—could be looked at by a more specific mechanism that doesn't necessarily fall under....

There's some debate about whether everything the CBSA does, as a national security body, falls under that committee. Can you comment on that specifically? What's being done to address some of those issues in the workplace and some of those security screening issues, for example, that oversight and review could help us address?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Please answer very briefly. Mr. Dubé is out of time.

[Bill Blair]

Very briefly, that's primarily the responsibility of Minister Goodale, and I know he's better positioned to speak to that issue for you.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Dubé.

Ms. Sahota, you have seven minutes, please.

[Ruby Sahota]

Thank you, Minister, for being here today.

I don't know if you're aware, but I think Mr. Paul-Hus and one of our Liberal members recently filmed an episode of Political Blind Date, where they went to the Quebec-U.S. border to see the situation of asylum seekers first-hand. He may be under duty not to say what happened in the show at this point, because I don't know if it has aired or not, but there was a little segment in The Hill Times about it. I believe that during the whole time they were there, they didn't see a single irregular border crosser.

The purpose of the show is to bring issues...when members from different parties have different views on issues, to try to see where they can be brought together in an unusual circumstance. I thought it was quite interesting. I wanted to hear first-hand from you about the numbers, and if, in fact, the numbers of irregular border entries have decreased.

Can you shed some light on that? If that is the case, if they were there for many hours and there was no occurrence, how have you been able to accomplish that?

[Bill Blair]

First of all, if I may, let me commend the members for going to Lacolle. I think it's a great opportunity. I would encourage all of my colleagues in the House who have any concerns about what's taking place there to go and watch the incredible and excellent work done by our officials to maintain the safety and security of our country and to process those people in an appropriate way.

There has been, just over the past number of months, a reduction in what we have seen in previous months. It's certainly a lower number. Quite frankly, we remain vigilant and maintain a presence there. Although we've made some real progress in reducing the number of people who are crossing irregularly, we remain there and the resources are there to make sure that whatever comes is properly and safely dealt with.

[Ruby Sahota]

Other than the processing of people at the border, through the different techniques and agents, what methods of communication or education have you been undertaking in order to achieve this?

[Bill Blair]

We've done a fairly significant amount of work. First of all, in some of the outreach, we've gone into those communities from which people were originally coming to seek asylum here, to make sure that they clearly understand Canadian law: that crossing the border irregularly is not a free pass or ticket to permanent residency or citizenship; that they would be subject to due process to determine their eligibility; and that if they are not eligible—if they are not truly in need of our protection—they would be subject to removal. We wanted to make sure that was clearly communicated.

What we have seen, in some of those places, is that this had a very positive effect in disincentivizing and discouraging people from making the mistake of getting in the wrong line. If they were trying to come to Canada for reasons other than seeking asylum and protection, we wanted to make sure they understood that it wasn't the right way to come in. It had some positive effect.

We've also been doing a great deal of work with U.S. authorities. We found last year, for example, that a number of people in the early part of the year were coming to the country in possession of temporary tourist visas issued by the United States. People were coming into the United States and then presenting themselves at the Canadian border. We worked very closely with the United States, pointing out the difficulty. We deployed CBSA officers to work with the Americans on the ground where these tourist visas were being implemented, and we saw a 73% reduction in people coming from that location.

There are a number of very effective things that our officials have been undertaking to make sure that people have a better understanding of Canadian law and how it would be applied in these circumstances. I think that has contributed significantly to the reductions we've seen in the number of people presenting themselves at our border.

[Ruby Sahota]

You must look at comparative numbers in other western countries. During the last few years, has there been an increase in migration to other countries as well?

[Bill Blair]

It is very much a global phenomenon, Ms. Sahota. Literally tens of millions of people are fleeing war and persecution. There are also a number of economic migrants who are very much on the move. Countries all around the world, certainly developed countries and countries that are considered safe—and Canada is one of the safest and most livable countries anywhere—

[Ruby Sahota]

Where are we on the charts when it comes to the number of people entering the other developed countries?

[Bill Blair]

We have the benefit of our isolation. In order to come to Canada, one has to cross one of three oceans or enter from the United States, so we are not as vulnerable to the migration of people as other countries that share more common borders.

At the same time, we are a country with a very good reputation as a place that is welcoming to refugees. I think we have a long and very proud history of various refugee groups that have sought asylum and protection in Canada and have become contributing and outstanding members of our country. It is an attractive place for people seeking asylum, but they need to understand the law and the rules, and that the rules will in fact be applied.

[Ruby Sahota]

I want to switch gears a little bit. I know that, under your mandate, you're looking after gangs. On the other side, there are many who fall victim to these gangs. There are human trafficking victims. I hear many times from constituents who feel lost because they've been victims of violence or some type of tragedy. Unfortunately, we've had quite a few.

I know that a National Office for Victims has been opened within Public Safety. There have been other initiatives that I was looking up, like the Canadian benefit for parents of young victims of crime, coming from Employment and Social Development. I was wondering if you could speak a bit about what is being done to help serve the victims of these crimes.

[Bill Blair]

As you've alluded, we have a victims' ombudsman, a person who is available to those who are victims. We also work very closely.... In most jurisdictions across the country, there are various victims services units, people who provide service to those who have been either the victim of a crime or related to someone who is the victim of a crime.

Very recently, we had the terrible tragedy on the Danforth. I spoke to victims services earlier this week and then met with and spoke to some of the people who have been deeply impacted and traumatized by that event, to make sure that they are, in fact, connecting with the services that are available to them. We continue to work with them.

You speak to another issue that I think is very important, and that is the notion of fear. I think fear is the greatest enemy of public safety, and when we become fearful in our own communities, we become less safe. People don't go to public space, they don't shop on their main street, and they don't take their kids to the park. They stop interacting with each other, and they stop interaction with law enforcement officials. Fear is something that I think we as a society need to make sure we address in an appropriate way. We need to help people be and feel safe in their own communities.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Ms. Sahota, I think we have to leave it there.

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Motz, the chair fervently hopes that you revert to your usual excellent questioning, as opposed to the last.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister. There are so many questions I have, and so little time.

Minister, you indicated in your initial remarks that illegal border crossers are fleeing persecution.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Point of order, Mr. Chair.

I know there are two terms that are used, but the fact is that they're not illegal.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Yes, they are.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

It's not just me saying that. Alex Neve, when he appeared before the immigration committee from Amnesty International, was quite clear about the term “illegal”.

Words do matter. It really troubles me when I keep hearing the opposition saying the word “illegal” and referring to people who are asylum seekers as “illegals”. It does matter what we call people who are fleeing persecution. These are international treaties that set out what our obligations are.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Mr. Chair, I am…

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

If you wish to debate this, it's....