Public Safety Committee on Feb. 18th, 2016

[Caroline Xavier]

We work in partnership, as was mentioned previously, so we rely heavily on intelligence-led information to better advise us on where we want to risk-assess and put our resources. Intelligence information and risk assessment form a great foundation with regard to how we determine where we want to put our resources.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

In terms of individual officers, how accessible are the enforcement tools at the border checkpoints? Reviewing somebody's cellphone is a great way to make sure that the story they tell is veracious and accurate. Are there other enforcement mechanisms at the disposal of the officers, and are they well equipped enough to do their job at the border level?

[Caroline Xavier]

As Madam Semaan said, our officers have a series of tools at their disposal at the port of entry, especially when somebody is referred to the secondary inspection, when they have multiple tools at their disposal, including, as you've said, the cellphone and other open-sourced tools and a series of other law enforcement databases. Of course, this is something we continue to review on a regular basis, and it's part of our border modernization to continue to look at what tools we need to put in the hands of our officers to make them more effective at their jobs.

[Nada Semaan]

We also have a number of imaging systems as well, where we can actually scan a parcel or something else and can see right then and there if there are any abnormalities.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

You're at four minutes, if you....

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

In the remaining time, let me just begin by saying thank you and echo many of the other comments that have been made today by all of my colleagues.

I think that next to our own staff, we probably interact more with your branch as members of Parliament than anybody else. We see you at the airports and it's always nice to enjoy your service.

It's an expansive department. You have an extensive mandate. In your own words, you interact with customs, the immigration file, the refugee file, intelligence, and conventional law enforcement. You service approximately 267,000 people a day. I think it's actually quite exceptional that we don't hear more concerns from people. However, it's on that last point that I just want to ask you a specific question about oversight.

You mentioned earlier that there are internal mechanisms. I think you called it the internal recourse program. Can you give us some brief stats from the last year about how many files or complaints you had, if those are the right words to use.

The second question I have is with respect to external oversight. As a department, have you begun conversations internally that would build upon recommendations stemming from the Arar inquiry and other public inquiries and coroner's inquiries that have come up in the last several years?

[Nada Semaan]

First of all, thank you very much for the question.

We do have a number of other internal processes as well as our recourse branch. In terms of the recourse branch, last year we had 94 million travellers who came to Canada, of whom 2,100 people filed some form of complaint. That represents 0.0023% of all travellers, so we are very proud, as my colleague said, in terms of the number of complaints. We have received a number of compliments as well.

Of those, only 23% were founded. Sixty-seven per cent were actually unfounded, and 10% were undetermined, where you'd sit there and were not quite sure, as it was a he-said-she-said situation and there wasn't enough evidence to go either way.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

And oversight? I ask now just because I'm mindful of the time.

Internally, have you started to have conversations about the appetite to embrace—

[Nada Semaan]

Yes. Our minister has been very clear. He wants to consult Canadians on oversight and what they want, and we welcome that. We welcome hearing what Canadians would like, and whatever the results of that will be, we will be absolutely thrilled to put them in place.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Thank you, again, and to your colleagues as well.

[Nada Semaan]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Miller.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our guests for being here.

Ms. Xavier, I think this question will be for you.

We're all aware that in the process at the UN refugee camps—I'm not sure of the numbers and what have you, it doesn't matter—the UN has screened refugees. Do your people still go through the same process regardless, or do we simply take the UN's words that so-and-so is fine? Can you tell me a little bit about that?

[Caroline Xavier]

As you mentioned, many of the refugees we are dealing with are referrals from the UNHCR. We have a long relationship with the UNHCR, who have a great many of years of experience in the screening they do. Having said that, we do receive what they have, but we still do a thorough screening from that perspective. As I mentioned earlier, it's a multi-layered approach to screening. It isn't a case of only accepting at face value what the UNHCR does. We take what they have. It's a good beginning indicator and then we proceed from there.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Okay. So basically there is no difference whether they're UNHCR?

[Caroline Xavier]

That's correct. We treat security too seriously to just take it lightly like that.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

That's very good. I'm glad to hear that.

[Martin Bolduc]

Mr. Chair, just as a point of clarification, most of the 21,000 refugees who have made it to our borders were not housed in camps. They had been living in theatre for a number of years, renting apartments, so I just wanted that for the precision.... They were not housed in camps administered by the UNHCR.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Can you give me a breakdown? How many from camps and...?

[Martin Bolduc]

I wouldn't be able to tell you how many of the 21,000, but very, very few came out of camps. Most of the people were already living in the countries where we are operating.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Could we ask that those documents be filed? I don't expect you to have them today.

[Caroline Xavier]

We'll refer that question to IRCC, as they would be the best to confirm that. We can ask them.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Thank you.

I want to switch gears to the difference between “government-sponsored” versus “privately sponsored”. I asked the previous group this question and they had to refer it.

One of the reasons why I ask this is that I've had a number of groups who have been told of the refugees coming to the various communities—and they even know their names—but two and three months later, those privately sponsored refugees still are not there. Yet they have the names of them and what have you. From both a security standpoint and a practicality standpoint, it just kind of perplexes me how it could be that way.

If you know their names and where they're going, why don't you get them on a plane and get them out of there? I know that's easier said than done, but still, once they're out of there, you can concentrate your work on a new group. Could you touch on that?

[Caroline Xavier]

Sure. Fundamentally, for anything related to GARs and PSRs, definitely IRCC is the expert. They're the ones more specifically to ask the question to, but what I can tell you is that with regard to those who are coming as part of this initiative, PSRs and GARs are having to pack up their lives and then potentially load planes.... I can't speak specifically to the cases you've just mentioned, but there may be a possibility that, although the end point for the PSR knows their name and that they are coming, the “when” is still being confirmed by the actual traveller, because sometimes they're not yet ready to take that plane.

I'm not exactly sure how I could better answer the question without knowing the particulars.