Public Safety Committee on Feb. 18th, 2016

[Caroline Xavier]

I'd say it's both. I wouldn't say that one is less or more. I'd say that we're doing it for both of those reasons.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

You said earlier that in many cases, a comparison to North American databases isn't as helpful. Have there been cases where biometric screening has led to a flag with a North American database?

[Caroline Xavier]

I can't specify exactly that just because somebody was screened, it was hit against X database, so I won't get into that level of detail with you. But I can tell you again that if there was a screening case and there was a concern, and additional information or time was required to review the case, it would be set aside for that purpose.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you, Madam Xavier.

Mr. Dubé.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank our witnesses for taking the time today to speak to us about these important issues.

I have several questions about the no-fly list. There was a case that received a lot of media attention recently, about a young boy who was going with his father to the Boston Winter Classic. This prompted the minister to ask questions, which was a very good thing. Today, we read in the media that the investigation is following its course. That is what the minister seems to have said also.

Can you give us a status report on that situation? Having the same name as someone else on the no-fly list is particularly problematic when it involves a child. Has the file moved forward? If not, do you know when these problems will be solved, when these mistakes will be corrected?

[Nada Semaan]

There are many reasons why an individual might encounter problems with an airline.

Mr. Bolduc can talk to you about this particular incident.

[Martin Bolduc, Vice-President, Programs Branch, Canada Border Services Agency]

Thank you for the question.

The CBSA does not deal with the list as such. That list is managed by Public Safety Canada and Transport Canada. Consequently, if the name of a passenger who comes to the counter is on that list, Transport Canada will inform the airline company that that person cannot board the plane, because he constitutes a threat to airline security.

[Nada Semaan]

Airline companies also use many other lists. Certain companies do not have the Canadian list, but use the American no-fly list. We have nothing to do with that list.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

That interests me. We may have run out of time with the previous group of witnesses. I want to take the opportunity to talk to you about this, since your work is related.

The situation is similar regarding cooperation with the Americans. Whether we like it or not, we have our public policies on security and the lists of people who are allowed to fly or not, and the Americans have theirs.

Over the years, even before the recent incidents, we have often seen problems involving lists that are not compatible. Is that problem close to a resolution?

[Martin Bolduc]

I will not refer to particular lists, but I can tell you that we co-operate with our American colleagues on a daily basis. There is an American officer in our National Targeting Centre, and a Canadian officer in the American Targeting Centre.

Our approach is to secure the perimeter. With that in mind we have daily exchanges on various files. This does not only concern national security files, but also criminal organizations and so on. We co-operate on a daily basis.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

That is good, thank you.

On a completely different line of thought, the industry committee did a study a couple of years ago on counterfeit goods that crossed the border. I was wondering if there had been any progress made. I know the committee had some recommendations. I was wondering how that was going.

I know that sports jerseys and things like that were some of the bigger issues that came up. Perhaps we could have as brief an update as possible, being mindful of time, of course.

[Nada Semaan]

As you are aware, the CBSA does administer the provisions of the Combating Counterfeit Products Act. When we do detect any potential counterfeit goods that are destined for Canada, while we would stop them, we actually call the RCMP. They're the ones who pursue the enforcement action. We would stop them, but the RCMP would then take over.

One thing is that we do encourage rights holders to file requests for assistance to protect their intellectual property. We've put that on the website, but also they can apply online. You spoke about Canada Goose. That's a great example of people we would encourage to put their products up and apply for it, so that we could then file for assistance and look for it. Then if we did encounter it, we'd call the RCMP.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Perfect, thank you.

I have another question about the products that cross the border. It takes about 40 or 45 minutes by car to go from my riding to the United States. We know that the Canadian dollar is in a sorry state at this time, which may lead some people to change their habits. Do you see a difference in the habits of consumers at the border, as compared to a few years ago, when the dollar was at par, or almost?

[Caroline Xavier]

We observe the movement of passengers and goods at the border on a daily basis. We do not see an immediate difference as soon as the dollar goes down, but we observe a change over a longer term. It is too soon to see immediate repercussions.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

I will conclude on the other aspect of this question. Without talking about volume, is there a change in the type of product being consumed? For instance, when the dollar was at par, we often heard about people buying cars in the United States and bringing them into Canada. I understand that it is still too soon to see an impact, but are you already seeing changes with that sort of thing?

[Caroline Xavier]

I cannot answer you. I'm going to let Mr. Bolduc answer that question.

[Martin Bolduc]

The products that are being imported are mostly products that are consumed daily. Of course when the value of the Canadian dollar is low, luxury goods may be less attractive. But from day to day, we generally see the same type of merchandise being imported.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Of course, thank you.

How much time do I have left, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

You have 40 seconds.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

I am going to use those 40 seconds to thank all of you again.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Monsieur Spengemann.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to split my time with my colleague, Marco Mendicino.

In the three and a half minutes that I have, I wanted to zoom in on something that was raised with your colleagues earlier, the virtual global commons. As my colleague, Monsieur Dubé, just said, goods and products cross the border in physical form. People cross the border in physical form. Ideas, payments, transactions, documents, and projects cross the border in virtual form. Those of us and members of the public who have had the chance to watch the series Border Security: Canada's Front Line will have seen to what extent your colleagues at the enforcement sites are going with respect to reviewing electronic communications, cellphone messages, text messages, and so forth.

My question is twofold. How important are the virtual commons as an enforcement space for you? What are the emerging trends? Then perhaps more specifically, what are two or three key priorities, gaps, or challenges that you see in being able to do your work well through virtual enforcement mechanisms?

[Nada Semaan]

You are right; e-commerce is growing and digital commerce is growing exponentially, but at the end of the day they still have to enter Canada, mostly through postal or courier systems. For courier systems, we have information that comes through them. We risk-assess. We can review and assess as it comes in. On postal systems, we also have quite an extensive review. You probably have seen our postal reviews in the border services show.

Goods that come in, whether they come through marine, postal, any format, are reviewed in the same way. We basically have a number of systems that help us identify, but there are also a lot of manual checks in terms of what we are looking for.

You had other questions.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

At the intersection of goods crossing the border with organized crime and people planning to smuggle goods, a lot of which will be virtual electronic communication, what is your enforcement reach? What are your gaps? What are your challenges? How can we help you to do your job better?

[Nada Semaan]

Our enforcement reach is quite extensive with regard to what we see. We have many tools at our disposal, as I mentioned. Not only can we take a look at what's coming in but we can risk-assess. We also do some scenario-based targeting. We look at open source. We do a lot of assessments in terms of looking where goods are. I won't get into the details from a security perspective, but we do have a lot of tools at our disposal to be able, first of all, to identify the goods that may be misrepresented, then look into them and investigate them.

I will ask Caroline, who runs our operations, if she would like to add anything to that.