Public Safety Committee on Nov. 7th, 2017

[Audra Andrews]

Sometimes aboriginal communities are very small. Especially if the offender is going back to a reserve, they will know that the offender is coming back. There are usually ceremonies and things in place for them to manage that. They will do healing circles and that type of stuff.

Again, that's a better question for an elder to answer. They have more knowledge in terms of what ceremonies and things can take place. I don't think I'm answering your question.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You're doing a terrific job.

Thank you, Ms. Gallant. Mr. Spengemann, you have two minutes.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you both for being here, for your service, and for your expertise.

I want to give you an opportunity to round out the discussion that you had with my colleagues Ms. Dabrusin and Mr. Saini on the question of addiction and substance abuse.

I want to put it in a very simple way. How much of your work, qualitatively, is connected to substance abuse or addiction in terms of the case-by-case work that you do every day?

[Zef Ordman]

In an institution, it's organized mayhem. You're managing 30-plus offenders, and as a parole officer, you're the central person for everything in terms of problems in the unit. There's a lot of, as I'll call it, managing dysfunction, and then trying to target whether, for example, I can get this offender a job in the kitchen. I might be able to, but I might not. There's a lot of juggling.

I can make referrals, I can make suggestions in terms of program, but it's quite restricted. You almost have to...I don't want to say “sell your soul”, because that's too hard, but if you want to get one offender into a program and they're an exception because they somehow fall outside these rigid guidelines, it's quite difficult to get them in.

There are not enough psychologists, and all these mental health issues are way higher than in the normal population. There's the need for those resources and to integrate that with elders, and sometimes in institutions there's a breakdown. In the Edmonton Institution, for example, there are silos. In better institutions, you have a good relationship as a parole officer with the elder, with the aboriginal, with the social programs, with the kitchen, and informally you get a lot of stuff done.

To answer your question, it's managing all that, as well as legislative timelines and new objectives, and there is a swamping of work and new best practices.

[Audra Andrews]

I would answer that the majority of my aboriginal offenders do have substance abuse issues.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you.

Before I bring the meeting to a close, I want to thank both of you for your courage and your service, and for bringing this huge dose of reality to our study. It's been quite impressive, and I want to thank you for that.

Colleagues, I have a couple of motions that we need to deal with before we suspend. I'm looking for someone to move, first of all, the motion with respect to the informal meeting with our Italian counterparts. Seeing Mr. Picard bounce up, that is moved. Do we have any discussion or objections? All in favour?

(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Thank you.

I just noticed that we have McKay, Dubé, Damoff, Motz, and Holland coming for that meeting tomorrow after question period. More, I'm sure, will be welcome.

Second, we have the request for a project budget. That is for this particular committee. I'd ask that somebody move the motion in favour of that budget. Ms. Damoff so moves. All in favour?

(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Thank you very much.

Do you see how efficient we can be here? It's amazing.

Finally, I would just note that there will be a room change with respect to the meeting with the minister on Thursday morning. It will be in room 415 as opposed to this one.

Go ahead, Ms. Gallant.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Chairman, is it possible to televise from room 415?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Yes. That's why we're moving.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Again, thank you, both of you, for your testimony.

With that, the meeting is adjourned.