Public Safety Committee on Jan. 25th, 2021

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but both of you said there was someone from CSC and the Parole Board. I'm assuming you needed that in order for them to have access to current policies and to be able to provide information, but they were not the ones who were writing the recommendations. Is that correct? The recommendations were done by the two independent individuals you're talking about.

[Anne Kelly]

That's right. They were there to provide support to the external members. Both co-chairs, and I want to insist on this, were not staff of CSC or of PBC.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Ms. Oades, on the process that was put in place for this report, how did it differ? You mentioned that there was one done in 2012. The other one was maybe 2006 or 2008. Was the process of getting this report the same, or did it differ in terms of the individuals chosen to write the report? Do you know?

[Jennifer Oades]

I don't know. I was in another place in 2012, so I wouldn't know. I would assume that it was very similar to what occurred over this investigation.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Ms. Kelly, one thing that you're changing is the model that's used in the province of Quebec. That model has been in place for 40 years. Some have spoken quite highly of the model that's been used. I understand why you're making changes. It was a recommendation that was made. I wonder if you could just speak to the fact that this model has worked well for 40 years and this was the exception, not the rule, for the way in which offenders were handled in the province of Quebec.

[Anne Kelly]

Absolutely. Yes, this model has been in place for a long time. Although we're changing the model, we're removing only the element of community supervision. There is no question that we can't fulfill our mandate alone. We rely on our partnerships. We have very strong partnerships in Quebec. Our community residential facilities in Quebec, just as in the rest of the country, will continue to provide offenders with accommodation and support. That's vital to the successful reintegration of the offenders.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you.

I think that's my time, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

It is, Madame Damoff. Thank you.

On behalf of the committee, I want to thank both of you for coming before the committee on such short notice. We appreciate your responsiveness. These are extremely difficult circumstances. We all share in the difficulty of this tragedy. If there's something to be recommended, I'm sure we'll try to circle in on it.

With that, colleagues, I'm proposing that we suspend for two minutes and allow our witnesses to leave the meeting. Then we'll have a brief discussion—public, bear in mind—about what you want the clerk and me to try to organize for Wednesday.

With that, we're suspended. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Colleagues, we have a Wednesday open. What is it you wish us to do with Wednesday?

Pam.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thanks, Chair. I would like to suggest, now that we've heard from the Parole Board and CSC on this final report, that we consider this study closed and that we start the report on Ms. Levesque.

Given that the House just today passed a unanimous motion to look at far-right extremism and online hate, I'm wondering if we could agree to move forward on Joël Lightbound's motion, which the committee accepted, to do a study. It is very similar to the motion that was passed in the House today. It's somewhat different, but I think that, depending on the witnesses we would call, it would be completely in line with the unanimous motion today. It deals with growing online hate groups, in particular those for white nationalism and supremacy, which have increased in size and polarization, and with how best to respond to them.

If colleagues would agree, I think we could perhaps start that study on Wednesday.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Is there reaction?

Jack.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Chair, before we consider the Levesque issue closed, I'd like to hear from those who proposed that study—Mr. Paul-Hus, and I know Madame Michaud was very interested in proceeding with that—as to whether there are any witnesses they want to hear from before we consider that closed. I'd defer to them on that.

Pam, was there more than one motion today? I know that Jagmeet Singh got up with a motion on the Proud Boys and others. Is that the one?

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

That's the one, Jack.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

That's the one we're talking about, okay. I haven't seen the exact wording. I heard part of it in the House.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I heard it, Jack. I don't have the exact wording in front of me. I know that certainly on our side, we think there's even more urgency to look at this issue.

I think Joël's motion was well worded. If it needs to be amended somewhat to expand it, I think we could perhaps look at doing that. It is about the online hate groups, white nationalism and supremacy, so I think it would allow us to look at what the motion in the House was about without even changing it. I'd certainly be open to that.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

That was adopted, I take it.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

It was. We voted in favour of it.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I'm sensing some appetite for that, but I want to give Kristina an opportunity to say what she wants. I don't see Pierre here, but I want to hear from Kristina.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you.

Indeed, Mr. Paul-Hus is no longer there. So I don't know what the Conservatives think. I would agree to close the discussion on the Marylène Levesque file and start discussing the report.

From another perspective, while the motion adopted today is very important, as is Mr. Lightbound's motion, the emergency motion that was tabled a few weeks ago by the Conservatives is very relevant and must be considered. It deals with vaccines and border measures. The motion I tabled on border management during a pandemic may be more appropriate than the emergency motion tabled by the Conservatives. I don't know.

Border measures are long in coming, so travellers continue to have few restrictions. This would be a good time to look at this matter, and then we could look at the issue of online hate. I look forward to studying that.

We could start by discussing the border management motion. I don't know what the Conservatives think about that.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Glen, were you waving your hand?

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

I'll let Shannon go first, and then I'd like to follow up, please.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Okay.

Shannon, go ahead.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Thanks, Chair.

I agree with my colleague about the concerns and the pressing issues around the motion in the House, but I would suggest that before we commit the mistake that it seems committees, bureaucracies and governments always commit by moving on before we actually finish off what is also important work, we should in fact turn our attention to concluding our report and our recommendations relative to the study on the RCMP. I think we probably should also have a conversation, as the chair and I have previously, about whether or not we want to include recommendations related to the Bastarache report, either under the umbrella of our main report or perhaps as a side effort.

Second, on behalf of the Conservatives and on behalf of Pierre Paul-Hus, who has gone on to finish his House duty, and as the co-initiator of the study of Levesque, I will say that there are indeed outstanding Conservative witnesses for the Levesque study. I don't have that list right in front of me, but I think the clerk does.

I would say this in terms of the order in which we should proceed: At the very least, we should finish with those remaining witnesses for Levesque, and then we should aim to complete our report and recommendations on the RCMP and, concurrent with or in addition to that, make a decision about whether or not we as a committee are going to address the Bastarache report, either in a separate report or in a section underneath that larger report on the RCMP.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Before I ask the next person, I will note that the English section of the report has been done. There are 96 recommendations. It's still in translation—and the clerk will correct me if I'm wrong—but I think it will not be available to us until February 11. That sticks in my mind for some reason or another.

Is that correct, Mark?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Mark D'Amore]

It will be ready that week, but it's a break week, so the committee will be able to meet on it the following week.