Public Safety Committee on Nov. 25th, 2020

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Mr. Simard, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I have a quick question for Ms. Tessier.

This summer, I read an article in The Globe and Mail about how CSIS was concerned with the potential for intellectual property theft in university exchanges, mostly by Chinese students.

Are you only concerned about China?

[Michelle Tessier]

Thank you for your question.

We are concerned that any hostile state could engage in intellectual property theft in Canada. We have pointed out that the threat comes from a number of countries. I can't go into details for all countries, but China is one of them. There are others, but for operational reasons we can't discuss them in detail.

We continue to stress to members of the community that it's important that they protect themselves. We're working in partnership with universities and vulnerable sectors so that they can protect themselves. That in particular is our current focus.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Does CSIS have any right to review visa applications from foreign students or researchers?

[Michelle Tessier]

For some visa categories, we give opinions to our colleagues at the Canada Border Services Agency and Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada on the threat an individual may pose, but the decision is theirs. Our role is to conduct a security assessment of applicants based on certain criteria.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

How can you distinguish between intellectual property theft and the sharing of basic scientific discoveries, which is common in academia? Who decides this at CSIS? Do you have the academic community's support?

[Michelle Tessier]

We recognize the importance of being able to work in a shared environment, especially in academia.

As I said earlier, we work with universities to give them information and advice on how to protect themselves. For us, it's very important that it be a partnership and that they clearly understand the issues. But we are very aware that it's important for them to be able to continue doing their work while also knowing what the risks are and what areas might be vulnerable.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

In that sense—

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Simard.

Mr. Harris, you have two and a half minutes, please.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and the minister can answer the question on the staffing as well as respond to this additional point.

More disturbing in Mr. Zinger's appearance before the committee earlier this month was his statement that he regards the Correctional Service of Canada as having an attitude or a long track record of dismissing the ombudsman's recommendations and being unresponsive not only to his recommendations but also to the recommendations that have come forward from other commissions, and this despite the agreement of the government on these things.

My question is as follows: Do you feel that you have sufficient authority or actual control over the actions taken by the Correctional Service of Canada in response to these recommendations and in response to your agreement to them?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thanks very much, Jack, and I think these are very important questions.

I work very closely with Dr. Zinger and I very sincerely value his observations and his advice in these regards. I also had the opportunity to work previously in another capacity with his predecessor, Dr. Sapers, and I think their work is invaluable and I very much support it.

I think it's also important that CSC responds appropriately to these recommendations, and it is my responsibility as the minister to ensure that the Correctional Service of Canada pays appropriate attention and responds in an appropriate way to the recommendations and observations made by Dr. Zinger. I believe that in my brief tenure in this office, the relationship between the correctional investigator, the Correctional Service of Canada and the public safety ministry has been very, very positive and productive. I believe that we'll continue to work collaboratively together.

If I may also respond to your earlier question with respect to staffing issues, the additional monies that are requested are staffing requirements for the implementation of Bill C-83, the introduction and the full build-out of the SIUs across the country. It is a resource-intensive activity to ensure that those inmates receive the supports and services and the time in various functions and that there are people there to make sure that it happens. We're making those additional investments because it is part of our legal obligation to ensure that those SIUs are properly implemented.

If I may quickly reference the work of Dr. Doob, I think he identifies for us that there's a lot more to do.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Harris.

With that, we go to Mr. Motz for five minutes, please.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Sorry; it will be Ms. Stubbs. I know you're disappointed, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Is it Ms. Stubbs? I was told it would be you.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

I know you're disappointed, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

One of us is disappointed, yes.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I'm inconsolable, Mr. Chair.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

We're going to cope.

Go ahead, Shannon.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Just following up on my last question and linked to CSIS's work, Minister, are you aware that Alireza Onghaei is identified by CSIS as under investigation for participating in clandestine foreign influence operations for the Islamic Republic of Iran?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Shannon, by the way, my inconsolability wasn't related to you but only to missing an opportunity to talk to Glen. I wanted to assure you of that.

Yes, I have an awareness, and I'm regularly briefed by CSIS and the RCMP on the important work they do. As I'm sure you will understand, I am not prepared to discuss that advice or the information that we receive.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Okay.

I asked a question about politically exposed persons. I guess, then, related to that, do you know that an Alireza Onghaei donated $240 to Liberal MP Majid Jowhari's riding association on December 3, 2019?

I'm also just looking at a picture of Onghaei with that MP in Parliament's Centre Block. Would you forgive me for asking if this is related, then, to your government's refusal to list Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps as a terrorist entity, in defiance of the will of Parliament that you yourself voted for in June 2018?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

They are two very separate issues. I appreciate your highlighting them so I can have the opportunity to explain that the determination on listing is not a political act. It is an act that is informed by our intelligence services and by the RCMP, who conduct very comprehensive investigations and provide advice based on the law and the evidence to make a determination on whether or not people are listed. There is absolutely no correlation whatsoever between that totally independent and important activity by CSIS and the RCMP, working, frankly, with me and the government in determining—

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

What are you doing to ensure that the will of Parliament is going to happen, which is to list that entity as a terrorist organization?