Public Safety Committee on Sept. 19th, 2024

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

I think this is going to take up the rest of our meeting. I wonder if we can release the witnesses at this point.

That's great.

Thank you to all the witnesses for joining us. I know it's a fun place to be in an afternoon, and we will invite you back, I'm pretty sure. Thank you, all.

We have 10 minutes available at this point.

I'm sorry, Ms. Damoff; I cut you off, I think.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I know we don't have a lot of time left, but I want to speak to this.

Russia is known to use right-wing commentators in various countries, particularly in the West, to disseminate disinformation as a part of its broader influence operations. These commentators, often with large followings and credibility among the right-wing conservative audience, are used as conduits for spreading pro-Russian narratives or divisive content and applying issues like nationalism, anti-immigrant sentiment, skepticism of main street media and distrust of democratic institutions.

Russia seeks to destabilize its adversaries from within and create chaos. This strategy involves seeding disinformation or half-truths that influencers repeat through social media and alt-news platforms. This tactic helps Russia achieve its geopolitical objectives by fostering division and polarization and undermining confidence in the democratic process.

I've had concerns about this issue for quite some time and was quite upset when I saw the charges that were laid by the United States on this.

It's something that I think all of us need to be looking at, and I'm hoping that we can vote to adopt this motion today.

I know we don't have a lot of time left, Chair, so I may finish there so that we can adopt the motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you.

We'll go now to Mr. Lloyd.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

I'd like to pass my time on to Ms. Dancho.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Ms. Dancho, go ahead, please.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for the motion, Ms. Damoff.

I do appreciate the witnesses. There are some excellent witnesses on here. They're well selected.

I would say that it's a bit unusual to include a limited list of witnesses. I would just appreciate if all parties had the opportunity. I know Mr. Lloyd mentioned Christian Leuprecht. We've had him here before.

I don't know if the Bloc or the NDP would also like to add witnesses, but it would be great to provide everyone an opportunity to ensure we have a robust list.

Otherwise, I see no problems, other than it doesn't mention how many meetings. Is that just open-ended, or...?

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

It was intended to be open-ended.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

MP Albas.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Mr. Chair, thank you.

I'm not a member of the committee, but I find this very fascinating.

I would suggest that perhaps there would be some time given so that all parties can contribute witnesses, and then maybe you and the clerk could make contact to see who is actually interested in coming to speak to this upcoming study. Then perhaps the number of meetings would take shape and you could present it back to the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

The motion has been moved as it is, so perhaps an amendment can be made.

We'll go to Ms. O'Connell and then Mr. MacGregor.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

He was on the speaking list.

I have a suggestion to offer, but he's right; he's on the speaking list.

Chair, can you add me?

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I have no problems with the motion.

There are some people I'd like to add. Probably I'd seek a very slight amendment for the list. It would be “includes but is not limited to”.

I would like to see people like Rachel Curran, who is head of public policy at Meta; Steve de Eyre, director of public policy and government affairs for TikTok Canada; and Lindsay Doyle, head of government affairs and policy at YouTube.

These are the platforms that a lot of these people have their content on. We know from previous studies at this committee that a lot of these social media giants are not even addressing their own terms of service, so I'd like to see those folks included.

I'm fine with having them listed here, or, to give everyone a chance to present their own witnesses, maybe we just include language that it “includes” this list “but is not limited to” it. I'm fine either way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Would you like to make that amendment?

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

I will include the very slight amendment that, in advance of the list of 10 people there, it includes these people but is not limited to them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Okay.

Is there any discussion on Mr. MacGregor's amendment? There is none.

All in favour of Mr. MacGregor's amendment?

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

We're back to the motion as amended, and we have Ms. O'Connell.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

I'm fine with that amendment now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Mr. Albas.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Again, I'm probably not the one who's going to do the study. Would it be that you, Mr. Chair, would then work with the clerk to get committee witnesses?

It would be helpful for all parties to know when they need to submit by, and then perhaps the clerk and you can inform the committee how many meetings you think it will take, once people have been contacted.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

That's generally the way we work anyway, but it's not part of the amendment and it's not part of the motion.

Ms. Dancho, go ahead please.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Since I'm stepping back into it, just as an aside, is the expectation that this happen immediately? When do we get our witnesses? That's Mr. Albas's point.

Are we interrupting any studies that may have been ongoing? I'm actually not sure. I've heard different things.

Are we doing this now, or are we finishing other things first?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

That's really up to the committee to decide.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Next week is kind of scheduled. The following week is kind of open, so I would suggest an amendment that the parties provide a witness list of additional witnesses by Wednesday of next week, so that we have a chance to schedule them for—

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

That's not many days. It's four days.