Public Safety Committee on Dec. 16th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

You have 10 seconds, Minister.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

...$1 million, together with the provinces. I just spoke with my Quebec counterpart, Minister Guilbault. We committed to discussing this important issue in the future.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Thank you very much. Your six minutes are exactly up.

Madame Michaud, the floor is yours for six minutes.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Chair.

First I want to thank the minister for being here with us today.

I thank the various witnesses who are here as well, the members of the committee and all parties represented in the House who voted in favour of my motion so that we can deal with this important issue quickly.

Minister, I have several questions for you.

Today, we know that in Canada generally, the rate of gun-related crime has doubled since 2014. In Quebec and Montreal, gun-related crime has increased quite significantly in recent years as well. As for criminal gangs, in Montreal, some 90% of the weapons they use are said to be illegal and most of them come over the U.S. border. It is quite worrying to note that the Montreal police department has seized almost more weapons than the RCMP in all of Canada in recent years.

I would like to know how the agencies under federal jurisdiction explain the fact that they are not able to seize more weapons. Do they explain it by a lack of resources or simply by a lack of political courage to tackle this issue?

Minister, can you hear me?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

I apologize. It's a technical issue.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

We can hear you.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Thank you, Ms. Michaud.

I share your concerns, but it is not true that there are fewer gun arrests and seizures across the country. On the contrary, the RCMP, in co‑operation with other police services, has mounted joint operations to make record numbers of arrests and seizures of firearms. We must work together with the Sûreté du Québec. This is ongoing. These operations in collaboration with the Montreal police must continue.

Our government remains committed to taking action to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and those with criminal intent. We have made federal investments that have been transferred to the Government of Quebec, which has allowed it to hire 71 officers in the last year, and even more prosecutors. So the federal government is there to make the necessary investments, in close collaboration with the Government of Quebec.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

You often talk about the investments that have been made in the past, and I understand that a lot of money has been put on the table, but the results don't seem to follow. There are also bans, regulations and laws that have been put in place to ban certain types of weapons.

You mentioned some shootings in your opening remarks. Now, some of these weapons had been obtained quite legally. This proves that the regulations in place are not enough and that more needs to be done on gun control.

In March 2021, TVA Nouvelles presented a rather interesting report on the gun route in Quebec, on the Akwesasne territory, which straddles Ontario and the United States. This is a subject that is not sufficiently addressed. There seem to be hundreds of guns a week coming across the border, and we don't appear to have the resources to stop it.

The Bloc Québécois proposed better collaboration between the various police services, a sort of joint squad involving the Akwesasne Police Service, the Sûreté du Québec, the RCMP, the New York City Police Department, or NYPD, and the Ontario Provincial Police, or OPP, so that information flows better and we have people working together on the ground to put an end to the illegal trafficking in weapons.

What do you think of this proposal? Don't you think more needs to be done to stop the trafficking of weapons, especially at the US border?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Yes, I agree that more needs to be done at the border, but we have already created several joint cross-border forums with our partners in the provinces and other countries, such as the United States.

Here are the facts regarding the progress that has been made. Last year, Canada Border Services Agency drug and firearms detection dog teams seized 74 firearms, 42 magazines and 22 prohibited weapons. This year, despite the decrease in passengers due to COVID‑19, the CBSA seized 59 firearms, 21 magazines and 12 prohibited weapons. Just a few weeks ago in Cornwall, the RCMP seized 53 pistols, 104 matching magazines and 6 Griffin Armament AR‑15s. So, there is progress, and several examples of arrests and seizures...

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Please wrap up your answer, Minister.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

That said, however, I agree that we have to continue.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Thank you very much.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

I will ask Mr. MacGregor to take his six-minute slot.

Mr. MacGregor, the floor is yours.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you so much, Chair.

Welcome, Minister Mendicino, to our committee.

You just referenced the operation that happened in Cornwall, which involved the participation of the Ontario Provincial Police, the Akwesasne Mohawk Police Service, Montreal Police, and Sûreté du Québec.

In the previous Parliament, the public safety committee released a report on systemic racism in policing in Canada. Recommendation 13 of that report called on the Government of Canada to make sure that we have an indigenous police services framework, that indigenous police services are designated as essential, that there is a requirement that they are adequately resourced, and that there is a commitment for the provision of sufficient funding to make sure that all interested indigenous communities can develop these police services.

We know that many indigenous communities straddle the Canada-U.S. border where smuggling takes place. We know that many indigenous communities within Canada suffer from gang violence and from firearms crimes.

Minister, I know you are just getting into the role of public safety, but how are you directing your department to take advantage of this recommendation and to make sure that indigenous communities have the policing resources they need to effectively keep their own communities safe from firearms trafficking and gang recruitment?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

First, Mr. MacGregor, I want to thank you and other members of the committee who participated in that study. It is one of the reasons why the work we are doing collectively at SECU is so important.

Our government is committed to working with indigenous leaders and communities across the country to ensure that we are collaborating with them in a way that allows indigenous leadership to ensure public safety across communities.

I have already had a number of very constructive discussions with Commissioner Lucki, who is on this call, and you will have an opportunity as well to pose questions to her.

We are going to make sure we are investing additional financial resources to co-develop the policies and the regulatory and administrative frameworks, which begins with indigenous perspectives in our communities. That is work that I know is extremely importantly to the RCMP, which works in close tandem with indigenous leadership.

Why is it important? It is precisely for the reason you pointed out at the outset of your question. When we are working together with indigenous peoples across provincial and territorial governments, we are better able to interdict illegal trafficking of guns and drugs, and we are able to ensure we are creating safe communities. That is something we are committed to doing.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Minister. I want to get through a few more questions.

We know that a lot of the gun violence in Canada is the result of drug trafficking. We know that a lot of gangs are competing for the same turf. We know that the drugs being imported into Canada are far more deadly with fentanyl and carfentanil, and they are far more addictive. As long as we have that demand problem, because of the increased toxicity of drugs but also their addiction qualities, we are going to have the resultant problems.

In my community in British Columbia we have been suffering through the opioids epidemic for six years now. It has left a trail of carnage in its wake. We now have the Province of British Columbia, the City of Vancouver, the City of Toronto, and the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police calling on the Government of Canada to be bold and to implement decriminalization, because we know that as long as there's a stigma of ongoing criminality, people are not going to be comfortable getting the help they need.

If we're not treating that root cause of the problem, Minister, we're going to keep seeing symptoms such as gun violence and gang activity.

Minister, why is your government implementing only half measures? Why are you not going the full way, meeting the requests of these important jurisdictions and actually implementing decriminalization for small possession amounts?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

I would begin by sharing the concern that you have in your community with regard to the opioids crisis. We are going to continue to listen very carefully to our public health experts and equally work within the law enforcement community to take an approach that is based on reducing harm for those with substance issues and for those with mental health issues. That's why we have made significant investments. We will listen to the evidence.

With regard to those who would illegally traffic opioids and other drugs to take advantage of and victimize people, we have put in place concrete resources, including at the border—and I highlighted those investments very specifically at the outset of my remarks—so that we can interdict and stop the flow of illegal drug trafficking at our borders.

Equally, we will continue to invest in our provincial and municipal frontline law enforcement, so that we can stop domestic illegal drug trafficking—which is there to simply take advantage of those who are vulnerable—because it is the right thing to do. That is how we are going to engender more public safety across the country.

I'm happy to continue to work with you and other members of this committee to achieve that goal.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

I think that's my time, Chair. I'm going to play by the rules here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

We had a full six minutes. We now move into the second round of questions. The first questioner will be Ms. Dancho.

You have five minutes. The floor is yours.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just want to make it clear, Minister, that your government has been in power for six years. For six years, we've seen violent crime go up. We've seen violent crime with guns go up. We've seen deaths from drug traffickers go up to extraordinary rates. Again, 7,000 Canadians a year are dying from opioids. We're seeing this problem raging in Winnipeg, Toronto and especially Vancouver, where the NDP member is from. This is a serious issue, yet with Bill C‑5, we're seeing a reduction of or no mandatory minimum prison time for the people responsible for those deaths.

For my question, I'd like to now focus on the issue of gun smuggling. You talked a little bit about it, but what frustrates me in particular is where your government is investing its resources. We see the buyback program, in which we know no criminals will be providing their guns back to the federal government. That's not going to impact criminal gun behaviour, yet we know the buyback program will cost.... I've seen estimates from $1 billion to even $3 billion. It's going to cost the taxpayer maybe $3 billion. We know that RCMP resources, which are already stretched far too thin, are going to have to put thousands of hours towards this buyback program.

We do feel that the resources your government is focusing on the buyback program are misplaced. If you would invest $1 billion to $3 billion at our borders, I think we would see a lot fewer illegal guns from the United States smuggled in by gangs, used in drug trafficking and used to kill innocent Canadians.

I do want to ask you something specific about the smuggling across the border. We know that border communities are being used to smuggle guns and dangerous drugs through. We know that there are some first nations communities in Quebec, for example, that border the American and Quebec border. I'd like to know what discussions you've had with those first nations communities about providing them with resources to keep their people safe and to stop the smuggling of any illegal substances or firearms that may be coming through the border in those areas of our country.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Thank you for the question, Ms. Dancho.

I will say that the RCMP and others are continuing to engage with first nations and indigenous peoples in a collaborative joint effort to ensure that we are co-operating and working together to interdict illegal gun trafficking as much as possible. We have set aside additional investments to—

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Minister, I'm sorry to cut you off.

Have you had any discussion with first nations communities on our borders about assisting them with this?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Yes, and we will continue to have those discussions to partner with them.

I also want to address a couple of other points that you made about our government's priorities, because I do think they are important. First, the mandatory buyback is an extension of our banning assault rifles. I know, Ms. Dancho, that the Conservative Party objected to that policy, but we believe it's the right thing to do—