Evidence of meeting #31 for Public Safety and National Security in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.
A video is available from Parliament.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jim Carr
—that there's the proper toing and froing.
We'll go back to you for an answer, Commissioner.
12:45 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
I think I need the question repeated.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB
Thank you. I had about three minutes and 30 seconds on my time.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Commissioner, you said specifically in your testimony that the minister's office asked if information about the guns would be included. You specifically said that. Is that correct?
12:45 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
Yes.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB
Okay. What would have made them think that was an appropriate thing to ask, given that five days earlier you said this information should not be disseminated beyond the Prime Minister and the Public Safety Minister's office? Was there a meeting you had in those previous five days where you said that, actually, it wouldn't be a big deal if the information was released?
12:45 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
No, it's because things changed hourly.
12:45 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
Everything was changing hourly. Those weapons were seized. Things changed so that we could release certain points of information. We were continually adding information at each and every press conference we did, so to ask if they were going to be part and parcel of another media release was not unusual.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB
But what changed? What changed about the guns in particular between those five days? Was there no active investigation anymore into where the guns came from?
12:45 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
No, I was assuming that eventually that would be part of a media release, so it was not an unusual request to be asking that question, because I was given the information, thinking that, in a couple of days, that would be part of a future media release. I was simply giving them the heads-up.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jim Carr
Thank you. We're out of time.
I now move to Mr. Noormohamed.
You have five minutes in this round, sir. Go ahead whenever you're ready.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Commissioner and Deputy Commissioner, for being with us today.
Commissioner, I think there have been a lot of assumptions made and a lot of aspersions cast. I just want to clarify a few things, and you might help me.
Can you speak very briefly about your understanding of the role of the Minister of Public Safety and the role of the commissioner, what the lines are and what lines should not be crossed?
12:45 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
It's about the principle of police independence, and it's about exercising police powers and making decisions in the operational realm. But, providing it's appropriate, I feel, for government and police to exchange information to provide situational awareness on events.... But if any of the political officials were to ask me to do something in an investigation specifically or provide specific direction in an operational realm or in an investigation, that would be crossing the line. Asking me to arrest somebody, asking me to investigate somebody or asking me to turn a blind eye and not to investigate somebody would be some examples.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
Did the Minister of Public Safety ask you to do any of those things, anything that would be considered inappropriate or cross that line?
12:45 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
Absolutely not. If anybody is more conscious of that, it's Minister Blair, especially as a former police officer.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
What would you say to those who say that the government wanted to leverage this into a gun ban? What would you say to those people, and what can you say to us about the work that was done previously in respect of banning weapons such as the one that was used in this awful tragedy?
July 25th, 2022 / 12:50 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
As per the conversation with Ms. Damoff, it was absolutely something that's been on the radar for several years. It followed from Mr. Goodale into Minister Blair's portfolio in the mandate, and it continued with Minister Mendicino. We had been helping them with policy and legislation for several years, well before I became the commissioner.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
Is that something that happens regularly between the Commissioner of the RCMP and the Department of Public Safety, regardless of who is in power?
12:50 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
Absolutely, if it involves the police. I gave the example of the cannabis legislation. We provided a ton of advice on that as well.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
Let's switch a little bit to the conversation around pressure. I can only imagine the pressure that you and your team were under in trying to make this happen, pressure from the government, from opposition, from the media, everywhere, and you provided good context in your comments earlier about this.
Can you share with us whether or not you felt the pressure that you were under was inappropriate in any way, shape or form from the minister or from the government?