Public Safety Committee on Aug. 16th, 2022

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Deputy Minister, it's great to see you here today, as well as your colleague. Thank you very much for coming.

I just want to follow up a little bit on the questions that my colleague, Ms. Dancho, just asked. I want to start off where she ended. There was this comment you just made about the fact that these four pages were caught up in the 35 pages, and we want to be very clear with folks as to why, for those pages, it took a little bit longer to ensure they were reviewed. Could you give us a very brief synopsis of what that review process looks like and why that might have taken a little bit longer to do?

[François Daigle]

The privilege review process takes time, not just with respect to these 35 pages but with all of our review processes, depending on the nature of the information and the privilege that's been identified. You can imagine, for example, that if somebody mentions a Treasury Board submission or a cabinet document in their notes, we have to review it, find out what it's about and track down people who have information about it.

We usually consult the Privy Council Office to see if this is a cabinet confidence or isn't, depending on the tests from case law or from the Canada Evidence Act, section 39. That takes some time, and we have to consult others before we can complete the review.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

During your review, is there consideration for “politics” and whether there are going to be political implications for the government?

[François Daigle]

As I've said, for us it's a legal test. Obviously, we want to provide all the information we can to the commission, given its mandate and given the importance of getting to understand what happened.

It's really a legal process that's done by our counsel and our paralegals in the Department of Justice. As I said, our minister's office has not been involved in any of it.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Would it be fair to say that Department of Justice lawyers don't read something and say, “Oh, that might be damaging to the government so we should withhold it”?

[François Daigle]

Yes, of course. The only question is whether it's relevant to the commission. If it's relevant, it needs to be produced, subject to some privileged information that may have to be redacted.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Did you or your department ever instruct to withhold any information that should have been disclosed?

[François Daigle]

No.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Would you ever do that?

[François Daigle]

No.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Why not?

[François Daigle]

It's because the mandate of the commission is very clear. Our job is to assist the commission. We'll provide them with all the information in the government's possession that's relevant to their mandate so they can discharge their mandate.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

For further clarity, what is the relationship between Department of Justice lawyers and the minister's office, if any?

[François Daigle]

The minister is the Attorney General of Canada as well. He is accountable to Parliament for the work of our department. All of the employees in our department work on his behalf to discharge the obligations under the Department of Justice Act, in sections 4 and 5.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

The act specifies that there cannot be political interference—or the act does not allow for political interference by the Minister of Justice. Is that correct?

[François Daigle]

There's nothing in the act that talks about political interference, no.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Just to clarify the question, would there be a circumstance in which the Department of Justice would be concerned in this situation? Was there a situation where the Department of Justice lawyers, the bureaucrats, were concerned that they were getting political direction from the minister's office to withhold anything?

[François Daigle]

As I said, our minister's office and the minister were not involved in any of the work being done by the department to support the government before this commission. I had no reason to be concerned about political interference. There were no discussions with the minister about this.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

There were no discussions with the minister, and you never instructed Department of Justice lawyers to withhold information.

Why do you think the misunderstanding Mr. Leather had came about? You talked about the circumstances around this. Why do you think he would have had that misunderstanding?

[François Daigle]

You'll have to ask Chief Superintendent Leather why, but I think you've already heard some testimony from the commissioner and others on that issue.

As I said, we were not involved at the time. We didn't provide advice, so I really don't have anything I can offer on that.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

You were comfortable with the way in which the Department of Justice lawyers provided information in a timely fashion, handled the redaction process where required, and consulted with the appropriate folks to ensure that nothing was being withheld unreasonably. Is that correct?

[François Daigle]

Absolutely. As I said, it's a very complex process with some tight timelines, and I think everybody is doing their best to support the government and support the commission and its work. I have full confidence in our counsel.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

You have 20 seconds, Mr. Noormohamed.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Thank you. I will yield the rest of my time to the chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

Thank you, sir.

We will now go to the Bloc Québécois.

Ms. Normandin, go ahead.