Evidence of meeting #40 for Public Safety and National Security in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Tony Van Bynen Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Thank you.
The intent here was to utilize a free time. That is why I would support the “before November 10” amendment. I think it's important, but I think both Bill C-21 and this investigation are important. It's worth the commitment of our time during the riding week.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon
Thank you, Mr. Van Bynen.
That is a possible future subamendment. However, the amendment right now is according to Mr. MacGregor, as modified further by Mr. Motz.
The subamendment of Mr. Motz is what we are now voting on.
(Subamendment negatived)
We're now back to Mr. MacGregor's amendment, which is to have the meeting on the 27th or as soon afterwards as possible.
Is there any further discussion on that, or any further amendments?
Ms. Michaud.
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Kristina Michaud Bloc Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would like to move a subamendment to Mr. MacGregor's amendment.
It could read: “after Thursday, October 27, or as soon as possible before November 10, 2022”.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Mr. Chair, I understand that we're trying to provide a little bit more leeway to the minister and the RCMP commissioner. As we've said, we've provided, in good faith, an additional week. That was voted down. Now we're looking at two additional weeks. However, I will point out that during break weeks the media is not paying us close enough attention, so it really is very convenient for the minister and the commissioner if they do come to committee during the break week when eyes will not be on them as much as they would otherwise. I just want to point that out to committee members.
I think this is important. This is a public interest story. This is about a minister possibly lying on the record—and the RCMP commissioner. I think it's important that we have folks who are in Ottawa during a sitting week, when the ministers aren't Zooming in from their living rooms in their home ridings. The minister is here this week, and I think it would be appropriate to have it now.
I just want to put that on the record for this subamendment.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Kristina Michaud Bloc Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I just want to make it clear that I'm not trying to give the minister and the commissioner a way out. It's really out of consideration for House administration.
I know that a number of committees have to cancel sometimes because the interpreters' situation is not ideal. There was an incident in the Senate last Friday. It's hard right now to find additional time slots. It's just consideration for the House staff, the committee staff and all the people who work to set up an extra meeting. It's out of consideration for them, if they need a little more time, instead of slipping the committee meeting in somewhere when people have already worked for two hours interpreting, for example, that same day.
In short, it's only to give them a little more time, not necessarily the minister and the commissioner.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon
Thank you. Sometimes we get lucky, like we did today.
Mr. Ellis, go ahead.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS
Mr. Chair, I'll respectfully disagree with my colleague from the Bloc. This is not about the House resources. It's not about Minister Blair in the sense of his time. It's not about Commissioner Lucki in the sense of her time. This is about the understanding, as I mentioned previously, for 22 people and an unborn child who died. It's as simple as that.
Those who affected this investigation.... The people of Nova Scotia have entirely—entirely—lost faith in the process and need to have answers. I think it's a travesty to think we need to make time for House resources. That may be a reality—I understand that—but for us to sit here in this committee and not attempt to put our best foot forward.... That's not good enough. It is not good enough. This committee needs to do better.
There's new evidence here. It is exceedingly clear that Commissioner Lucki and Minister Blair have conflicting stories. To sit here and say that we need to be pandering to this or that or trying to smooth things over is not good enough. That is not good enough. Is that why we came here? Did we come here to say, “Oh, we're too busy” or “Oh, the minister is too busy”? That makes no sense to me. That's nonsensical. Are people too busy to come here to answer for mistruths or half-truths or misleading...or whatever parliamentary word I'm going to use today because I'm going to maintain a measured approach? That is unacceptable. It's ridiculous. It's nonsense. This is beyond any common sense. People looking at these transcripts now and saying, “Oh, that's not what the commissioner said”.... Well, let's get the dang commissioner in here and make her understand, then, what she said. Let's get the minister in here. Let's get them both in here. Then we don't have to be over here going along—
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon
Stop. Stop.
Would you keep your voice down on behalf of the interpreters.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS
That's a very good point, Mr. Chair, and I respect that, but this is an emotional thing for me, and the people on this committee need to understand that. They need to understand very clearly that we can no longer allow people to go on, such as my colleagues across the aisle, and say, “This is what I think the commissioner said” or “This is what I think the minister said.” That's not right. Let's get them in here. Let's have them go through the transcripts themselves. Let's have them understand what was said at the MCC. Let's have them understand what Darren Campbell said. Let's have them understand what Chief Superintendent Leather was told not to talk about by the Department of Justice lawyers.
Let's have them in here, and let's make them atone for what they have said. It's as simple as that.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon
Thank you.
That's the subject of the main motion.
Is there any further discussion on the subamendment?
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Tony Van Bynen Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Mr. Chair, I just wanted to clarify Ms. Dancho's comments that the concern about extending it to November 10 was not enough “media”.
Did I hear that correctly?
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Mr. Van Bynen, I think you're well aware that ministers go home for break week. I think it's important that they come to committee in person. They are here this week. They should be here in person. As well, the public wants to have answers on this.
I think you're well aware of what break week means, so I don't think I need to further clarify my comments to you, Mr. Van Bynen.
