Public Safety Committee on Dec. 1st, 2022

[Murray Smith]

Is that the one that speaks to centrefire semi-automatic rifles?

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Yes. It states:

a firearm that is a rifle or shotgun, that is capable of discharging centre-fire ammunition in a semi-automatic manner and that is designed to accept a detachable cartridge magazine with a capacity greater than five cartridges of the type for which the firearm was originally designed,

I'm asking about G-4. That's a very all-inclusive amendment in just that paragraph alone. It's open-ended. It could really add any firearm in the future. That's where we're kind of looking for the interpretation today: Is it on the list?

We're looking for a definitive answer from you, Mr. Smith or Mr. Daly. Are these going to be captured in this new list of prohibited hunting rifle bans that the Prime Minister has laid before us?

[Murray Smith]

The schedules, schedule 1 and schedule 2, are not connected in any way to the proposed amendment you were referring to earlier about centrefire semi-automatic rifles. They operate completely independently. The firearms listed in schedule 1 are the firearms that are already prohibited, either in the 1990s or in 2020. In schedule 2, it's firearms that the government has proposed become prohibited if the bill passes. Those lists are curated. They are produced manually.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

What you're leading people to believe.... Maybe I shouldn't say that. I'll have you answer the question.

Some of the firearms I've already spoken about fall into that amendment G-4 category in that paragraph to be potentially prohibited under Bill C-21 if this legislation passes.

Are you saying that they're not going to be impacted by this legislation, or are you saying that they are going to be impacted by the legislation?

[Murray Smith]

I'm saying neither.

In response to the question about whether it would be on the list, I answered whether they were on the list or not. The impact of the evergreening clause, the semi-automatic centrefire clause that you mentioned earlier, was not part of the question and not part of the answer either.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Well, let's keep going. I think we're looking for clear answers today, and we're still not getting them.

Law-abiding firearms owners know that they're going to be included by that paragraph. For you to say, “Well, no, they will not be—”

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

The statements made by the member are speculative. The amendments or any changes that might be contemplated for that schedule have not been dealt with, as has been mentioned earlier. It's an inappropriate comment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you for your intervention, Mr. Van Bynen.

I would remind Mr. Zimmer that G-46 has not been moved. We are on debate on G-4.

Carry on.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Okay, let's go on to the next one. It is on the Ruger No. 1 hunting firearm. Is that firearm going to be added to the prohibited list if the legislation, Bill C-21, passes with amendments?

[Murray Smith]

The Ruger No. 1 already appears in schedule 1. It's been on that list since May 2020. There's nothing new coming from Bill C-21.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Then it will be prohibited.

[Murray Smith]

It's just being repeated in the schedule as opposed to being in the regulations; however, I would also point out that it's only those versions of the Ruger No. 1 rifle chambered for a calibre that is capable of producing 10,000 joules of energy or more that are listed in paragraph 95 of the existing regulations and of the proposed schedule 1.

Ordinary calibres—

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

I have to keep moving. I know that some of my colleagues want to ask questions today too, so I'm going to try to make the answers more concise.

The fact of the matter is that the Ruger No. 1 is a hunting rifle, and it now will be prohibited as a result of that legislation.

[Murray Smith]

That would not be correct.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Let's go on to the next—

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

Perhaps we could ask the witness to repeat his answer. Mr. Zimmer was speaking over his answer. I couldn't hear what he had to say. Could we get clarity there, please?

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

It's my time, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

It's the committee's time. If the committee does not hear an answer, I would certainly invite the witness to state it again and maybe a little more loudly.

[Murray Smith]

The question, as I understood it to be, was about the Ruger No. 1 rifle and whether it was prohibited. My answer is that some Ruger No. 1 rifles are prohibited, in particular those that are chambered for a calibre capable of producing 10,000 joules of energy or more.

Versions of the Ruger No. 1 rifle that are chambered for ordinary hunting calibres, the type that someone would use in Canada for hunting deer or moose, would not be prohibited. In general, they would be non-restricted.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Smith.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I have another point of order, Mr. Chair. This is sincere. It's not to interrupt Mr. Zimmer. Is it me, or is it hard to hear?

It is hard to hear. Okay.

Is there any way we can turn...?

Thanks. I thought I was losing my hearing or something.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Go ahead, Mr. Zimmer.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Let's go on to the next hunting rifle, the Mossberg 702 Plinkster .22 long rifle. Will that hunting and target-shooting firearm be prohibited as a result of Bill C-21 legislation?

[Murray Smith]

No. The model 702 Plinkster is a conventional .22 calibre hunting rifle. It's unaffected by what's in Bill C-21.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

I'll go on to the next firearm, the hunting rifle, the Westley Richards model 1897. Is that firearm prohibited as a result of this legislation and associated amendments?